[change of heart, decided post was too incendiary. post deleted]
The answer is “No.” Next question?:o
Thanks Bob. I’m struggling with the idea of hell to be honest.
Is hell a purely symbolic place then? or are there real flames, and real suffering?
Actually we torture ourselves with our disobedience to God,
If we go to hell it will be our own choice. And I rather believe that the real suffering will be the too late regret of our disobeidience which will never end , no way , no how. Peace, Carlan
I don’t know that I understand this. God gave us free will and everlasting life (spiritually speaking). If we denounce God then we go to Hell by our own choice. So if while in Hell someone who has done so asks for forgiveness… they don’t get it? Why?
Dave B_, here’s a short (~7 minute) video on the topic by a very intelligent priest that may help you better understand the concept of hell as it relates to God’s love and how those in hell suffer/why:
You can’t ask for forgivenes in hell. Hell is your final “no” to God. A person who goes to hell has so turned in on him or herself that there is no room in their hearts for God or for repentance. So it’s not as if there is a slew of people in hell begging God’s mercy and are being denied it, the people who go to hell remain there by their final decision to be for themselves and against God.
C.S, Lewis’s The Great Divorce is a useful book for this.
Anyone who sincerely wants forgiveness will have it. Anyone who sincerely wants God will get Him. But there are probably some people who will simply refuse to me forgiven and refuse to admit they were wrong. C.S Lewis said “in the end there are two kinds of people, those who say to God, ‘thy will be done’, and those to whom God says thy* will be done.’ All that are in hell choose it…”
God doesn’t torture people in hell. He leaves them alone, that is all. And that mind, willing itself apart from God, the source of all goodness, shut up with its own hatreds, bitterness, selfishness, and pride is hell. how could it not be?
I used to be a universalist (in the end everyone will be saved) because I figured God couldn’t send anyone to hell. I still think that of God, but I am not now a universalist, not because my views on God changed, but because my views on people did. It is too realistic to me that some people will reject God and in the end, have that rejection ratified.*
When we are given the actual grace to to accept the redemption Jesus won for us , we are justified and made clean by the Trinity. We are given sanctifying grace which helps us to grow in holiness. This is a life long process. If we turn away from this gift of God without repentance and do not turn back before we die our eternity will be spent separated from God, We Christians call that separation Hell. Yes, the choices we make are by our free will.Peace, Carlan
Define “torture”. Short story: Not directly.
Long story summation: His infinite Love and Justice is intolerable to the damned… so that’s torture. To evil, the existence of good is torture- so I suppose one could blame God, by the fact of his existence, as torturing evil souls.
I watched the video. I like Fr Barron. I’ve seen him before on etwn. And you’re right the video is well worth viewing.
I agree with him that God is love, and we have free will.
His main point I think is that people send themselves to hell. And that God does not send people there.
I am not convinced about hell as a real place, but am going not going to kick up a stink
I think both the current Pope and the one before would probably agree with you that it is not a place like Brighton for example. JP II explained it this way:
- The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather* than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy. This is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church summarizes the truths of faith on this subject: “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called ‘hell’” (n. 1033).
“Eternal damnation”, therefore, is not attributed to God’s initiative because in his merciful love he can only desire the salvation of the beings he created. In reality, it is the creature who closes himself to his love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God’s judgement ratifies this state.
God is love. To live eternally without love is hell. This can happen only if one rejects Gods will to love as He does, adamantly refusing it and consequently living without the unending happiness and bliss that the knowledge of Love entails.
no one can get to hell without refusing, adamantly, during life and at the moment of death, when he confronts God face to face and is granted full knowledge of his sins, and also of God’s love and mercy, refusing to ask forgiveness, refusing to be sorry, and rejecting that mercy. No one is thrown into hell. Every one their leapt in under their own power by their own will and are there because the do not want forgiveness. Recall that after death, whether in heaven or hell we are in eternity so there is no such thing as “well tomorrow he might be sorry”. There is no possibility of a change of heart in the future because there is no future, only the eternal “now” of rejection of God.