Does the overshadowing of Mary turn someone into an adulterer?


#1

i have read in many places that Luke 1:35, with its “putting power upon” and its “overshadowing”, uses the langage of marital relations, that either this is when Mary became the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, or this is when/how the Holy Spirit will impregnate her, or both. but it has been posed to me that if Mary became the spouse of the Holy Spirit before her betrothal, then Joseph is an adulterer, and if she became the spouse of the Spirit after her betrothal then the HS is an adulterer!

here are the exact words of my opponent:[list]In that book by Opisso, The perpetual virginity of Mary, he pleads his case for why Joseph could not legally consummate his marriage with Mary. He uses the arguement from the Bible when he says: “From the earliest biblical days adultery carried with it a sense of defilement, so that a woman who had known contact with another man, even if by force, was considered no longer fit to be visited by her husband (Genesis 49:4; 2 Samuel 20:3).”

“The deuteronomic code teaches that a woman who is divorced by her husband and thereafter marries another man likewise cannot return to her former husband (Deuteronomy 24:1-4)’”

Because of these reasons, he says that Joseph, knowing Jewish Scriptures, history and practice, would have been hard pressed to consummate his marriage with Mary. It would have been unthinkable, because she had “known contact with another.” I wonder if he knows that instead of protecting Joseph from lawlessness, or Mary from Joseph, he has tossed the transgression onto the Holy Spirit.

According to the laws that prohibited Joseph from taking Mary, the Holy Spirit is actually the “other man” of whom he speaks of when he says, Mary “had known contact with another man,” and Mary “becomes another man’s wife.” That “other man” to whom these laws would apply to is the Holy Spirit.

Remember that Mary became pregnant by the Holy Spirit after she was betrothed to Joseph. Now read Deuteronomy 22:23-24 “If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.”

Once it is conceded that the Holy Spirit is that “other man” in the scriptures cited, He by default becomes that “other man” who takes to “himself” a virgin already betrothed to another man (Joseph), and “violated his neighbor’s wife” (Mary). The Scriptures say that is an evil thing. And therefore since Mary “cried not,” both should be stoned publicly.[/list]

i am not immediately sure how to get around this difficulty. your help would be greatly appreciated.

pax christi,
phatcatholic


#2

Hi Pathcatholic,

First of all, It is far out to put the Holy Spirit as “another man”, The Holy Spirit is God and not a man. Hence, God Who created everything and everyone, has ownership over all the people and specialy our Lady since he preserved form the beggining to become incarnate. So there is nothing like God taking taking somone elses wife.
It is also known that Mary is ever virgin, so there was no defilement on her by becomming pregnant by the Holy Spirit. First of all, the Holy Spirit has no physical body like us to have relations with a woman as it is implied in your oponents argument.
Second, since she stayed forever virgin, Our Lady was never defiled and neither Joseph commited adultery with her although he was, even as per a nomination directly from God, her husband and Jesus foster father.
On the other hand, all the laws that apparently Mary had broken because of getting pregnant while bethroted by Joseph, Give even more merit to her Fiat. Since she didn’t care that on the eyes of men she could, and as your oponent seems to have demonstrated, would be seen as having broken the law and deserving of death by stonning. She instead followed Gods plan for her and for the salvation of humanity with her acceptance of His Will regardless of the suffering and accusations it might have caused her.
So in conclution, although, for someone without faith it would apear that she commited adultery. For us who know in Faith the Truth revealed through scripture that Neither she nor Joseph commited adultery and what’s more she was kept sinless by the grace of God through Jesus her son in advance from her conception to the time of her asumption into heaven where she is and where she interceeds fur us all as her children with our Lord her son Jesus Christ.

Blessings,
J.C.


#3

If Joseph never slept with Mary - he wouldn’t have committed adultery…right?


#4

so, is this basically just a matter of God not being bound by his own laws? or is it deeper than that?


#5

[quote=phatcatholic]so, is this basically just a matter of God not being bound by his own laws? or is it deeper than that?
[/quote]

Spirit isn’t bound by law. Spirit is either good or evil. Spirit is supernatural so the natural law that binds man does not pertain to it.

To demonstrate I’ll use the glue of heaven, bonds between persons.

Jesus is bound by the parental bonds of the Father and Mary, does that mean the father is her husband?

Jesus is the King of kings and Mary is Queen of heaven, is Jesus her husband?

The power of God is expressed by the Holy Spirit and it is the human spirit when perfected that shares His image and likeness. Knowledge in it’s deepest sense is a union of likeness. Mary being perfect could be known fully by the Holy Spirit because of the shared image and likeness. It was the Holy Spirit who’s very person expresses union that 'Knew" Mary. Is He her husband?

In that sense of Union with the Holy Spirit all of us were meant to share that union and all of our souls are brides to the Holy Spirit.

Only Mary can be called the helpmeet of God.

Marriage does not exist in heaven but the order of the bonds between the persons of the trinity is the order of the bonds between persons of the human family on earth. In heaven there is One bond shared by all persons that unites them more intimately than we can experience. The bond of heaven that unites all is the bond that all share with God.


#6

this is the meaning and reason for the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity, she became pregnant by the action of the Holy Spirit without vaginal penetration and subsequent loss of virginity, not as in pagan religious myths when the male deity took the form of a male human or male animal and impregnated goddesses or humans with a penis. the entire concept of adultery is meaningless in this situation.


#7

[quote=puzzleannie]this is the meaning and reason for the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity, she became pregnant by the action of the Holy Spirit without vaginal penetration and subsequent loss of virginity, not as in pagan religious myths when the male deity took the form of a male human or male animal and impregnated goddesses or humans with a penis. the entire concept of adultery is meaningless in this situation.
[/quote]

This is a great answer.

Maggie


#8

Just to add my male perspective… If I knew that my virgin fiancee/wife was going to give birth to the Son of God, the absolute last thing on my mind would be to consummate the marriage after He was born.


#9

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