Does the passion of abortion arguments lead one into temptation to sin?

Hi all,

I was wondering this after an incident I partially regret doing earlier today. I was arguing with another woman about abortions, and she (the pro-abortion side obviously) had been rude the whole argument. I was trying to remain civil, but the straw broke when I was trying to explain that I felt women should understand the risks of having sex [discussing non-rape cases], that they should take responsibility if they get pregnant, even if they don’t want the child, and that they shouldn’t resort to killing their child out of inconvenience. She responded with “No self-respecting woman would ever say those words!” and started talking about how she had two abortions out of three pregnancies. Keep in mind this was after an entire argument of being insulted over the issue. Finally, I snapped, saying “No self-respecting woman would suspend her natural love for her children enough to kill two of them!”

Needless to say, I’m pretty sure I hurt her. So, while I don’t regret that I was fighting for the pro-life cause, I regret the words I used. However, I don’t know what else I was supposed to do. Am I supposed to drop the argument and stop defending the lives of those little ones? Am I supposed to just continue to take endless abuse from someone not listening to a word I say? Is it even possible to get into a civil discourse about abortion? I don’t want to sin out of wrath defending abortion, but I also don’t want to leave those babies without vocal defenders. Also, at the same time, while I feel bad about being mean, I have a hard time seeing the difference between her and Susan Smith. Part of me wonders if there even IS a difference.

If any that are more experienced in having discussions with the pro-abortion movement over this issue could please help me know how to make a good pro-life case against a rude opponent without delving into sin (or if you just have comments), please respond.

Surely she was rude because she felt guilty, and her guilt fuels her passion. When dealing with this woman in particular, I think our goal in conversation should be to soften her hardened heart. So probably talking with abortion with her at all is not helpful to her. She knows what she did, and she is clearly in denial about its morality. She needs God to break through to her, and show her she is forgiven.

I know it can be a source of temptation for me as I get sooooooo angry about how they think they are the more compassionate ones. We really do live in a world gone mad. I follow Pro-Life Advocate: Abby Johnson on facebook and some advice she posted recently seems applicable.

A few things you should know about people who support abortion (since I used to be one of them).

  1. People who are sure in their beliefs don’t go to a page with opposing beliefs to defend their position. No one has to justify their beliefs to any of us. If they are sure about where they stand, they wouldn’t be on this page. So, in a sense, I am thankful that they are that insecure. That means they are vulnerable to the truth.
  1. When they get backed into a corner, they act like snakes. Why? Because death begets death. They support the death of a child…so their souls are dying. They will not find a renewed sense of self until they turn their lives toward life.
  2. People who support abortion can’t focus on the issue at hand. That is why they try to trap you in other ways. We notice that they are worried about our 40 Days for Life signs laying on the ground, or we are standing too close to their property line, or did you give credit to the right person when you said this quote, it goes on and on. Here is a reality check…they support killing children…none of this other petty stuff really matters.
  1. These people thrive on engaging people from the other side. They debate you because they want to agitate you. Don’t fall for it. Don’t engage them. If you do, you are falling into their trap.
  1. Currently, the pro-life movement is winning. That is why they are so angry right now. Their blessed Planned Parenthood has been under fire for over a year. Planned Parenthood’s support is waning. Which is great! That is what we want! We know that women deserve better than Planned Parenthood. However, it causes them to spew even more venom. When they curse you and fight you, you know you are winning. :slight_smile:

I guess the key is do not engage. I can think of only two people’s minds I have ever changed, and let’s face it, it was probably not me changing their minds, but the Holy Spirit changing their hearts. In both cases these people were already my friends, when the subject came up and I was shocked by their position, we had an ongoing dialogue about it because they could see how sad I was.

I think that is why there are so many quiet ways to show who you are and what you stand for that do not engage. I used to wear the little silver feet every day, but I lost them and need to get another. Choose Life bumpter sticker, etc.

Edit: I agree with the above poster that she is hurting, most of them are in some way, even if they have not had an abortion. Just move forward knowing that anyone you discuss this with could be sitting on that card to expose just at the end. We have to treat them as victims too and help them find healing if they let us.

Abortion is an issue many people feel very passionate about. Of course that tempts us to sin! The way I see it is that we should not stop engaging, but engage from a position of love and caring and resist the temptation to become angry and hurtful.

I have experience arguing with pro abortions specially since I would give pro life speeches for Human Life International and I have argued with many pro abortionists. I think that the trick is learning their traps and tricks and avoid falling into them and while doing an argument stay focus on the issue. I think it takes some practice to learn how to argue.properly with a pro abortionists. In your case you fell in her trick. I would have probably said basically you are telling me I don’t respect my own self because I advocate responsible behavior in people? Having self respect is about being responsible so yes a woman with self respect would advocate responsible behavior. I also would probably point out that the fact that I am pointing out that something she did was wrong is not a personal attack on her, if someone starts to get angry and aggressive just because I am pointing out a wrong behavior to me means guilty feeling which probably means that person needs help, and probably would have offered some counseling help to that person.

Abortion is a subject that has the power to attract angry feelings, it takes practice and learning to focus on the issue without getting angry. I would suggest you to read as much as you can about pro abortion arguments and just practice and more practice.

RE the title of the thread…Certainly such arguments can tempt us to sin…no doubt about it…

As to the specifics that you relate…You have NOTHING to feel sorry for (unless you were strangling her when you said it…:slapfight:).
Seriously - depending on the specifics, I could see myself being sorry for the way I said this…but not for the words.

She opened the door of “self respect” by what she said to you…the fact that you came through that door and turned her own argument back on her was a stroke of Spirit guided inspiration (IMHO).

You say that you are sure you hurt her…I would ask - how was she hurt? Think about it…was she hurt because you challenged her with her own argument as to what constitutes a “self respecting woman”??
I agree that your comeback very likely stung her…and perhaps wounded her deeply…and if it did, this may well work to the good…for is she really takes the time to consider the ramifications of you you said, she may come to some startling realizations about her position and choices.

I don’t say the above out of any malice but such people really need to be struck with the horror of what they’ve done and sometimes that requires strong words…

Peace
James

Not only do I think you were right, I think that was the best possible answer you could have given. The fact that it affects her emotionally isn’t a bad thing.

It is very difficult to discuss this issue. Someone who has had an abortion (or two) knows deep down what they have done, as it is a violation of the natural law. Facing the horror of those actions is no easy task, and most I think choose to either hide it or come up with anything they can to justify it.

I engaged a man by raising my voice and being angry at a pro-life rally, so much so that I could not talk or think straight. I think what I did ( I did confess it) was unwise. He may have left thinking, “That chick’s a real psycho.” And may have been able in his mind to further justify that he is on the right side. Some people may be able to engage, but I would definitely need to learn more compassion if I were to do that again. After that incident and after confession, I stood silently holding signs and showing my support.

Silent protest speaks volumes. To look at the silent prayerful protest of the pro-lifers versus the loud angry chants of the pro-abortionists was telling to to me.

Anger over the murder of the unborn is righteous anger.

As for your comment, she was expressing pride over her decision to have 2 abortions. You responded by saying that it is nothing to be proud of, which is true. That’s a fair admonishment, and if it hit home, then perhaps she will realize what she has really done. It is better than tacitly endorsing her decisions by not disputing them. When the offense is to you, you should turn the other cheek, but when the offense is to the vulnerable, the right thing to do is to stand up for them.

So insofar as the comment relates to the sin, I think it’s fine. Perhaps something could be said about the term “no self-respecting woman would…” which makes it personal, about the sinner rather than the sin. But really, she made it personal by proclaiming that she had 2 abortions, and by implying that you were not self-respecting in the first place because you don’t believe killing children is a justified response to unwanted pregnancies.

Would you consider it pride even if she was just saying it to argue that she had experience with the issue? I doubt she was boasting about them.

Perhaps not. I might have assumed something based on what the context seemed to be:

She responded with “No self-respecting woman would ever say those words!” and started talking about how she had two abortions out of three pregnancies. Keep in mind this was after an entire argument of being insulted over the issue.

I guess I don’t necessarily mean pride in the theological sense, but I supposed she was speaking of them as something that would validate the claim, “No self-respecting woman would ever say those words!” I wasn’t present of course, so if it seemed to have been spoken differently, then I can’t say.

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