Does the Pope have supreme universal jurisdiction over the Eastern Churches?


#424

This is genius! In other words, proper disposition means no mortal sin, schism is a mortal sin, therefore, Orthodox may never partake in accordance with Canon 844!


#425

No. You did not clarify.

Is SSPX in schism or not according to your definition? They do refuse submission to the Supreme Pontiff, don’t they? They refused to sign an agreement of reconciliation.


#426

I have a hard time believing Orthodox are not taught to be properly disposed. Differences in custom should be respected, but proper disposition is not about length of fasts but honoring the Lord.

As I mentioned earlier, the standard for the Orthdox is not necessity, but “ Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage suggests…”


#427

I can’t take credit for anything. That’s why I quote copiously. AND, from the beginning of my formation, I remember that proper disposition was always stressed.


#428

I see that, you didn’t open the link given.


#429

But seriously, what is the point of canon 844 making allowances for Orthodox the possibility of receiving communion if it isn’t actually possible for them to be properly disposed?


#430

The teaching about proper disposition is there.
844 §3. Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regard to the sacraments as these Eastern Churches.

I’ll just say,

Our parish has between 3-4,000 parishioners.

  1. We have 5 masses, 1 Saturday eve, and 4 on Sunday.
  2. we have daily mass where ~ 80-120 parishioners attend daily mass.

Is there individual checks to see who is inappropriately there in the communion line? No

Is proper disposition only applicable for Catholics and not non-Catholics? No


#431

I see that you don’t want to give a yes or no answer. That was the opinion of Mr. Staples.
According to the definition you have given, the SSPX is in schism since they refuse to submit to the Roman Pontiff. However, it appears that you do not want to say that they are in schism, so the definition does not hold.
Further, the definition you gave of schism would not apply to a schism between the Greeks and the Russians.


#432

Right. It is going to depend on who is interpreting the phrase : “properly disposed”. For one thing, AFAIK, the Orthodox Church generally does not have a strict division of mortal and venial sins. And under certain limited circumstances, an Orthodox married couple may be given permission to use artificial birth control. Suppose for example, that they have seven children already and their finances are unable to support more children, and the wife is in poor health so that she would have a heart attack and die if she had more children.


#433

Mr Staple’s explanation was a synopsis of events and he is correct. For a further explanation, http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2011/10/05/canon-law-and-the-sspx/


#434

Since the point being addressed was about non-Catholics receiving the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, then understanding of “proper disposition” is on the terms of the Catholic Church


#435

I still don’t get it. Let me ask a yes/no question:

Can I, as an Orthodox Christian not in communion with Rome, be properly disposed to receive communion in a Catholic Church within the conditions of canon 844?

If the answer to this question is “no,” why does canon 844 seem to make allowances for certain non-Catholics to receive?


#436

as state before

Re: proper disposition

  1. “Must manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments, meaning they are properly disposed” . As in http://dioscg.org/index.php/being-properly-disposed-to-receive-holy-communion/

AND

  1. Grave necessity / exceptional circumstances / Fear of death / etc https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=406

I noticed neither links were opened.

The Catholic Church doesn’t monitor every single communicant that presents themself in the communion line for being in proper disposition. If one is in an improper disposition receiving the Eucharist, who is that on? the individual.

As Paul said

27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+11:27&version=RSVCE


#437

It appears that they say that SSPX is not in schism. This then implies that your definition of schism is wrong, since the SSPX does not submit to the Roman Pontiff, even though they admit that he is the Pope. They say that they are disobedient in certain areas. Since you are wrong on the definition of schism, your credibility has been damaged.


#438

You are selectively ignoring some points that are made by both Mr Staples and the canon law link

It gets back to one’s individual disposition ( links given previously) & excommunication was lifted for the SSPX individuals who changed their views.


#439

Steve: I don’t believe your ability to provide a yes or no response is predicated on whether I have read the links you’ve given. These seem to be someone’s summary/opinion of the law rather than the law itself. Nor do they address my yes or no question as to whether it is possible for an Orthodox Christian to be properly disposed to receive under the conditions of canon 844.

I’ll also re-ask my second question. If it is impossible for an Orthodox Christian to be properly disposed, why does canon 844 seem to allow for us to receive communion under specific circumstances?


#440

Yes. It is best to ignore points that you have made, since they are wrong. The SSPX is disobedient by their own statements, and yet they are not in schism.


#441

If one can’t bring themselves to the proper disposition explained in those links, then they shouldn’t approach the Eucharist in the Catholic Church.


#442

The points made were not mine. The points given were properly referenced.
Take a closer look at the qualifications from Bp Tobin https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=406


#443

Let me try one more time, slightly changing the wording of my yes or no question: In your opinion, based on the sources you’ve provided, is it possible for an Orthodox Christian to be properly disposed such that they can receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church in accordance with the conditions set forth in Canon 844? Really, this should be a simple yes or no.


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