Does The Pope Have This Much Power?


#1

“For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED.”

–CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

Is this right that the pope has these privaleges?

In my opinion…he shouldnt have this much power…JESUS SHOULD!


#2

[quote=godsent]“For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED.”

–CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

Is this right that the pope has these privaleges?

In my opinion…he shouldnt have this much power…JESUS SHOULD!
[/quote]

Is not the Pope the Vicar of Christ?

Note also that this is not arbitrary power. Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords. The Pope (Peter and successors) was given the keys to the Kingdom (i.e., like a Prime Minister). The Pope is in charge of the Church. He is its visible and authoritative head in lieu of Christ (and until such time as Christ returns).

The Church ain’t no democracy ;).

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com


#3

[quote=godsent]In my opinion…
[/quote]

your “opinion”, as my “opinion” or their “opinion”, really does not matter… “opinion” does not change what it is.


#4

As you quoted, he is the Vicar of Christ. Therefore, the Pope has power, Christ has power.


#5

[quote=godsent]“For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED.”

–CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

Is this right that the pope has these privaleges?

In my opinion…he shouldnt have this much power…JESUS SHOULD!
[/quote]

Given all the conditions under which the Pope exercises his authority, we can be confident and grateful for it. I know a lot of people were extremely unhappy when Pope Paul VI exercised his unhindered power when he wrote Humanae vitae. But nearly 40 years later, it looks like he was a prophet.


#6

yes… guided by the Holy Spirit…

:slight_smile:


#7

[quote=trth_skr]Is not the Pope the Vicar of Christ?

Note also that this is not arbitrary power. Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords. The Pope (Peter and successors) was given the keys to the Kingdom (i.e., like a Prime Minister). The Pope is in charge of the Church. He is its visible and authoritative head in lieu of Christ (and until such time as Christ returns).

The Church ain’t no democracy ;).

Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
[/quote]

Thanks alot for your answer,i think you explained that superbly…thanks:)


#8

[quote=godsent]“For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED.”

Is this right that the pope has these privaleges?

In my opinion…he shouldnt have this much power…JESUS SHOULD!
[/quote]

If it is any comfort, Jesus said that those set over his Church who abuse their authority will face a most severe judgment:

42And the Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43Blessed is that servant whom his master when he comes will find so doing. 44Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45But if that servant says to himself, `My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will punish him, and put him with the unfaithful. (Luke 12:42-46)


#9

[quote=godsent]“For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED.”

Is this right that the pope has these privaleges?

In my opinion…he shouldnt have this much power…JESUS SHOULD!

Well, Jesus does have that power, and He does his best to let all his people know what his will is, but it seems that we people can’t get it right with out some help. Thus, Jesus has given us a visible church with a visible head that is lead by the Holy Spirit, which is extremely helpful when some of the rest of us our led by desire and ego (myself included). It isn’t Christ’s fault that we humans are too obstinate to be open to the Holy Spirit, but he was kind enough to give us a guide…
[/quote]


#10

How else do you interpret “What you bind on earth, is bound in heaven, what you loose on earth is loosed in heaven”?

That sounds like the authority to wield all the power at your command. Now, has the pope ever used this authority. I think not, after all, he has the Holy Spirit to guide him.

NotWorthy


#11

Well, it sure is obvious I have learned alot from Fr. Larry’s CD’s from the Mary Foundation. I remember him saying something to the effect that if you gave someone the keys to your car, does that person now have full control of your car? They can allow anyone they want in and drive it as fast or slow as they want! Well, Jesus gave the keys to the Papacy and they have control of the Church on Earth. Just like your keys, it must control it in a way that will allow it to be returned to it’s owner in the same or better condition then when they got it. The Papacy, will only be the earthly head till Jesus comes back to Earth. I hope this helps you! God Bless


#12

This is me thinking, When Jesus said, “and The gates of Hell shall not over come it [Papacy and Church]” and “I will be with you till the end of time” I feel safe that even if we don’t have a great person as Pope, Jesus will protect us and the church from his flaws.


#13

[quote=godsent]"For the Roman pontiff (pope)

, by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED."

–CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

Is this right that the pope has these privaleges?

In my opinion…he shouldnt have this much power…JESUS SHOULD!
[/quote]

Hi All
I know that this will not be an answer that will find much agreement but here goes anyway.
The pope is only in charge of an organization, the Catholic church.
Christ is in control of HIS church and would certainly not put it in the hands of sinful man. The pope is in charge of the Catholic church, not Christ’s church. If the pope were the leader of Christ’s church then he would not have let all the abuses that have gone on it the Catholic church over the years go on.


#14

[quote=NonDenom]Hi All
I know that this will not be an answer that will find much agreement but here goes anyway.
The pope is only in charge of an organization, the Catholic church.
Christ is in control of HIS church and would certainly not put it in the hands of sinful man. The pope is in charge of the Catholic church, not Christ’s church. If the pope were the leader of Christ’s church then he would not have let all the abuses that have gone on it the Catholic church over the years go on.
[/quote]

O.K. not to sound mean or anything but, why then would God put preists in charge of the sacrfices? They were sinful people (Caphas) and the sacrifices were important in the OT (as a remession of their sins before God). Why would he put sinfull people in charge? I don’t know. Why would God give Adam free will if he knew he was going to screw up like he did? I don’t know. Gods ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. I don’t know why God chose to do things the way he did but, he did. And we , as God fearing Christians, should accept all that God tells us to, Pope and all.


#15

[quote=NonDenom]Hi All
I know that this will not be an answer that will find much agreement but here goes anyway.
The pope is only in charge of an organization, the Catholic church.
Christ is in control of HIS church and would certainly not put it in the hands of sinful man. The pope is in charge of the Catholic church, not Christ’s church. If the pope were the leader of Christ’s church then he would not have let all the abuses that have gone on it the Catholic church over the years go on.
[/quote]

well, perhaps you should re-read the Gospels; Christ chose the one who betrayed Him to found His Church upon.

To say that Christ would not put His Church in the hands of sinful man is to say that he would not put it in charge of anyone, as we are all sinful. How then, is a decision to be made, if not other than by sinful men? If there is error, who is to correct it, other than sinful man?

and if there is truth, if Christ gave us truth, then why are the 20,000+ denominations squabbling over what that truth is, except for the fact that they refuse any leadership inspired by the Holy Spirit?

And since many of them, if not most, claim that the Holy Spirit is leading them, and yet they persist in major disagreements as to what that truth is, it will do you little good to claim that the Holy Spirit is going to take care of it all; even a casual look around might convince one that the holy Spirit has taken a several centuries holiday.


#16

[quote=NonDenom]Hi All
I know that this will not be an answer that will find much agreement but here goes anyway.
The pope is only in charge of an organization, the Catholic church.
Christ is in control of HIS church and would certainly not put it in the hands of sinful man. The pope is in charge of the Catholic church, not Christ’s church. If the pope were the leader of Christ’s church then he would not have let all the abuses that have gone on it the Catholic church over the years go on.
[/quote]

I take it you go to a church on Sunday? I bet this church you go to has a man/woman leading you in scripture too! Why is it you would go to church and listen to someone who is sinful? There is only one difference in your preacher and our leadership of the Catholic Church. We in the Catholic Church know that the Holy Spirit is there guiding us and ensuring that evil will not prevail over us. There is sin in all non-catholic churches as well. My wifes grandmother has a pastor that has commited adultury. Another pastor I know of has commited adultery and beat his wife. These isolated instances do not automaticly make all pastors of that denomonation wrong, does it? Same with the Priest! What some priest have done was not the Curch doing it. It was the human side of the priest commiting those sins. You can not hold it against the Church for thier actions. I still believe the Catholic Church is the fullness of His Church. Evil will not Prevail does not mean it will not exist, it simply means it will not win! I will always pray for our seperated brethren that they may one day find the fullness of the Church. God Bless!


#17

I recently returned from Rome after a pigrimage to Assisi and Padua. While there we got to go to the Wednesday general audience with Pope Benedict XVI. We were able to get within three feet of our Holy Father as be slowly passed by in his “popemobile.” I don’t really know how to explain this, but the best way I can describe him is that he exudes love. You can really sense the Holy Spirit is with him. That is where his power comes from, the love of Christ. Yes, he has “power” over the church, but it’s not the kind of power a politician or CEO or dictator would have. This is a far greater power that transcends that which man gives to himself. This is not a self-serving power. It is love. Pure love for humanity. You see this love expressed in the Pope’s writings. His homilies. His reaching out to other faiths. You see this love in the way he governs the church. This isn’t a power to fear, but a power to rejoice in. His power is just one more way Christ reaches out to us. It’s as if He says, “I’m not incarnate with you now, but here is my trusted friend to lead you on your earthly journey.”


#18

[quote=NonDenom]Hi All
I know that this will not be an answer that will find much agreement but here goes anyway.
The pope is only in charge of an organization, the Catholic church.
Christ is in control of HIS church and would certainly not put it in the hands of sinful man. The pope is in charge of the Catholic church, not Christ’s church. If the pope were the leader of Christ’s church then he would not have let all the abuses that have gone on it the Catholic church over the years go on.
[/quote]

Eh, we’ve had plenty of sinful popes. In fact every has been a sinner. Some did seam to revel in it though. The simple fact that we have had some real loser popes and they haven’t been able to teach error just goes to show the power of infallibility. As I recall one keeled over the day before he was to make a heretical proclamation.


#19

yes he has that power… frankly, it doesn’t matter what you think. Christ bestowed upon the Holy Father this privilege… and it is not up to us to question His intention or meaning.


#20

[quote=godsent]“For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED.”

–CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882

Is this right that the pope has these privaleges?

In my opinion…he shouldnt have this much power…JESUS SHOULD!
[/quote]

Jesus said, “Whatever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven; whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loose in heaven.” Jesus gave Peter a great authority–something that does not only encompass that which is temporal, but even goes all the way to heaven. I was struck by this passage while comteplating on it. Peter was given a power almost like Christ’s. He was given something extraordinary. Jesus didn’t say to him–“Look, I am the Master, so I will only give you this much so that I can still have control.” No, Jesus practically gave Peter full control of the Church. It’s something to think about.


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