Does the "X" mean homosexual?

I mean the "X" in X-Men. I've seen all the movies. I believe they contain a lot of subtle liberal propaganda

Looking at all the movies as a whole I would say that in addition to promoting homosexuality, the director is also very anti-American. In the second and third movie the villain (Magneto) repeatedly tries to kill *all *Americans (commit genocide) because of their "intolerance". The American military (in almost all the movies) has been portrayed as a group of unintelligent thugs who use their power to murder innocent "mutants". (A response to don't ask/don't tell?)

In the latest movie the writers do some revisionist history (as far as I know). They implied that the Cuban Missile Crisis was first begun by America, who placed missiles in Turkey, which provoked the Soviet Union to put missiles in Cuba. Is this is even true? Does anyone know?

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:1, topic:243118"]

Looking at all the movies as a whole I would say that in addition to promoting homosexuality

[/quote]

In what way do the movies promote homosexuality?

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:1, topic:243118"]
the director is also very anti-American. In the second and third movie the villain (Magneto) repeatedly tries to kill *all *Americans (commit genocide) because of their "intolerance".

[/quote]

Do the movies actually portray Americans as predominantly intolerant? Or is this simply the villain's perception?

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:1, topic:243118"]
The American military (in almost all the movies) has been portrayed as a group of unintelligent thugs who use their power to murder innocent "mutants". (A response to don't ask/don't tell?)

[/quote]

Hmmm..that isn't a comparison which every would have occurred to me, but then I am used to generals being portrayed as bloodthirsty and a bit stupid. Its been a common sub-plot or image since the Vietnam War era. I think one of the reasons for its persistence is because military generals, at some level, are representative of authority figures and the existing order. Teenagers, famously, often feel like the older generation are out of touch and mismanaging the world. So the portrayal of bumbling generals who misuse their authority may resonant with teens who are at times unhappy with their teachers, parents, employers etc. and who look forward to having more control over their lives than they do as teens.

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:1, topic:243118"]
In the latest movie the writers do some revisionist history (as far as I know). They implied that the Cuban Missile Crisis was first begun by America, who placed missiles in Turkey, which provoked the Soviet Union to put missiles in Cuba. Is this is even true? Does anyone know?

[/quote]

Withdrawal of the Jupiter missiles in Turkey was one of the key points discussed with the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/moment.htm

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. You must be new to the X-men. The mutants in the series are used to portray racial discrimination and prejudice. The mutants are outcast, misunderstood and labeled as menaces. This is a direct comparison to the racial tensions that were brewing when the series was created in the 60's.

I don't know in what way the "X" would mean "homosexual", and I didn't see the latest movie. In the earlier ones though they were not the least subtle about making homosexuality and "intolerance" of it the central theme.

Magneto obviously was a bad guy, albeit one with whom you were meant to empathize. He suffered horrors in the Holocaust because he was different (Jewish) and thinks he sees a similar kind of intolerance in society's attitude toward mutants (read:homosexuals). His problem is he ultimately doesn't believe in diversity and tolerance either, but in doing something, anything, so that mutants are no longer a persecuted minority- for example, trying to turn all the regular people into mutants. The real answer, according to the moviemakers, is to let mutants be mutants and regular people be regular people, and why can't we all get just along.

They do explore an interesting question within the homosexual world, namely if you could change yourself into a regular person would/should you. Some of the protagonists come out very strongly against such an idea, saying mutant is who you are and to try to change that is to deny your very self, and they see that underlying the desire of regular people that mutants become one of them is ultimately a desire that there be no more mutants at all. Rogue, however, who has suffered so much isolation because of her mutation, ultimately goes for it, and thus is finally able to touch and be touched without fear of harming anyone, and it is very difficult for the viewer not to feel that the decision was right for her.

This isn't quite a silver lining to the series, but it does show an attempt for the movies to be more than simply a pro-homosexual monologue.

My sophomore year of high school we read the book Night by Elie Wiesel about his experience during the Holocaust. Not only did we study the Holocaust, but we studied genocide as a whole. My teacher gave us a paper listing the 8 Stages of Genocide.

The 8 Stages of Genocide:
1. Classification
2. Symbolization
3. Dehumanization
4. Organization
5. Polarization
6. Preparation
7. Extermination
8. Denial
Here is a link giving a description of each stage: genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

My teacher than showed us the third X-Man film and had us view the film in terms of genocide and to try to point out the stages as they appear in the movie. So really, for me, I see the third film more about genocide than anything else and a statement on genocide.

I haven't seen the first two or read the comic books. From what I know, the X-Men are outsiders meant to symbolize people who don't fit in (racial as well as other minorities, or those kids in school that feel picked on and don't fit in).

As far as I know, the X stands for Xavier as in Professor Xavier, also known as Professor X (the good guy in the wheelchair who gave the mutants--outcasts--a school and place of acceptance).

[quote="Dale_M, post:2, topic:243118"]
In what way do the movies promote homosexuality?

[/quote]

A simple search with google will bring up numerous web sites that have come to the same conclusion. (first 3 links)

-** en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men**

Another metaphor that has been applied by some to the X-Men is that of LGBT. Comparisons have been made by some between the mutants' situation, including concealment of their powers and the age they realize these powers, and homosexuality.[16] Several scenes in the X-Men films, which included openly gay actor Ian McKellen and two of which were directed by openly gay director Bryan Singer, have been said to illustrate this theme. In the comics series, gay and bisexual characters include Anole, Destiny, Karma, Mystique, Northstar, Graymalkin, Rictor, Shatterstar and the Ultimate version of Colossus. Transgender issues also come up with shapechangers like Mystique who can change gender at will.

boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001285.cfm

Case in point: Homosexuals have embraced X-Men as a metaphor for their experience, seeing themselves as persecuted victims of a society driven by no more than fear, ignorance or bigotry. And it's fair to say they've had some encouragement from a number of people involved in the comics and movies — especially the latter.

Though all the characters are straight, the last two movies have featured thinly masked "coming out" scenes where young people have to tell their parents they're mutants, and the parents respond with shock and sometimes-strong resistance. Bryan Singer (director of the first two movies) is openly gay, and actor Ian McKellen (who plays Magneto) outspokenly so: Neither has made any secret that they intended to deliver gay messages.

Things come to a head in the third and latest movie, though Singer is no longer in the director's chair. A major plot point is that a formula is invented that can cure people of mutancy. The very idea that the condition needs to be cured is outrageous to most (though not all) of the characters, heroes and villains alike. The parallel to ex-gay ministries is all too obvious, and the likes of McKellen have been explicit about the connection. "[The producers] will tell you one of the demographics that X-Men appeals to is young gays.... There are enough people in this world who think that the answer to the 'problem' of being gay is to be 'cured' of your abnormality."

today.msnbc.msn.com/id/12956661/ns/today-entertainment/t/x-men-come-out/****
“Have you tried not being a mutant?” asks the mother of Iceman, one of the misfit kids in Bryan Singer’s “X2,” the 2003 sequel to his 2000 “X-Men.” Iceman may attend Xavier’s School For Gifted Youngsters, but he’s more than gifted and not exactly a youngster.

Indeed, his mutant nature, which includes the ability to freeze ponds with his fingers, only becomes stronger as he ages. A minor character in the original “X-Men,” Iceman comes into his own in “X2,” revealing his true nature to his baffled parents, who react as if he’s just announced he’s gay. His mother worries that it’s all her fault, while his brother is so revolted that he calls the police.

Brett Ratner’s addition to the franchise, “X-Men: The Last Stand,” includes a character new to the “X-Men” films, Angel, whose disapproving father finds him trying to hack off a pair of wings attached to his back. As a child, Angel is deeply ashamed of his ethereal nature. As an adult, he finds that he can literally fly away from parental rejection.

“The Last Stand” begins with a flashback to the childhood of another mutant, Jean Grey, whose parents were ashamed and afraid of her telekinetic abilities. As an adult, she vigorously defends the kids’ right to be different.

Jean, Iceman and presumably Angel are heterosexual, as are the other mutants in the “X-Men” pictures. But they behave a lot like runaway gay kids, forming their own families of gifted outlaws as they escape birth parents who feel nothing but embarrassment for having brought them into the world.

In “The Last Stand,” which the producers emphasize is not the last installment in the series (after all, the first two collected $700 million worldwide), Iceman is completely “out” as a mutant. He uses his frosty charms to woo Rogue, who matches his ability to chill out.

Their chief opponent in the first “X-Men” is a self-proclaimed “God-fearing” senator, whose intolerant anti-mutant speeches sound a lot like current anti-gay and anti-immigrant rhetoric. “People like you are the reason I was afraid to go to school as a child,” says a mutant who kidnaps him.

Do the movies actually portray Americans as predominantly intolerant? Or is this simply the villain's perception?

I would say it portrays most Americans as intolerant and "scared" of mutants.

Hmmm..that isn't a comparison which every would have occurred to me, but then I am used to generals being portrayed as bloodthirsty and a bit stupid. Its been a common sub-plot or image since the Vietnam War era.

The fact that they are always trying to murder mutants in these movies is interesting.

Withdrawal of the Jupiter missiles in Turkey was one of the key points discussed with the Soviets during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/cuba_mis_cri/moment.htm

Thanks. I was not aware of this.

[quote="kmuestwin, post:3, topic:243118"]
I'm sorry but you are incorrect. You must be new to the X-men. The mutants in the series are used to portray racial discrimination and prejudice. The mutants are outcast, misunderstood and labeled as menaces. This is a direct comparison to the racial tensions that were brewing when the series was created in the 60's.

[/quote]

This may have been true of the original X-Men, and come to think of it there may have been some of that in the movies too. Consider, for example, Storm's lesson (recent discoveries seem to make it a little more plausible than it was when the movie came out) that the Neanderthals did not go extinct when they came in contact with modern man but merged into one species with them. That analogy makes a lot more sense with race relations rather than gay-straight tensions.

On the other hand, consider the the scene when Iceman comes out to his mother that he's a mutant and she reacts so badly, and when she says she still loves him you think "why would that even be in question?"

Then there is the fact that the mutation becomes manifest at puberty (though apparently present from birth), Rogue's painful struggle, etc. Also consider what is likely to be considered politically and socially relevant today. No one is suggesting going back to segregation, but homosexuality is a hotbutton issue.

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:1, topic:243118"]
I mean the "X" in X-Men. I've seen all the movies. I believe they contain a lot of subtle liberal propaganda

[/quote]

*Regarding the title of my post: *
Sorry if it was poorly worded, but I was saying this somewhat sarcastically, not as an absolute statement. I thought that this was obvious, but I guess not. The question was meant to illicit opinion.

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:1, topic:243118"]
I mean the "X" in X-Men. I've seen all the movies. I believe they contain a lot of subtle liberal propaganda

Looking at all the movies as a whole I would say that in addition to promoting homosexuality, the director is also very anti-American. In the second and third movie the villain (Magneto) repeatedly tries to kill *all *Americans (commit genocide) because of their "intolerance". The American military (in almost all the movies) has been portrayed as a group of unintelligent thugs who use their power to murder innocent "mutants". (A response to don't ask/don't tell?)

In the latest movie the writers do some revisionist history (as far as I know). They implied that the Cuban Missile Crisis was first begun by America, who placed missiles in Turkey, which provoked the Soviet Union to put missiles in Cuba. Is this is even true? Does anyone know?

[/quote]

The X-Men came out around the same time as the Civil Rights movement. The main characters are a marginalized minority, trying to live in/defend a world that hates and fears them (this is the basic theme of the X-Men throughout the existence of the franchise).

Moreover, in the most recent film (which I just saw) the Cuban Missile Crisis was deliberately provoked by violent mutants who want to wipe out humanity.

In conclusion, if you're going to criticize something publicly, at least have the decency to learn something about it first.

[quote="Aelred_Minor, post:4, topic:243118"]
I don't know in what way the "X" would mean "homosexual", and I didn't see the latest movie. In the earlier ones though they were not the least subtle about making homosexuality and "intolerance" of it the central theme.

Magneto obviously was a bad guy, albeit one with whom you were meant to empathize. He suffered horrors in the Holocaust because he was different (Jewish) and thinks he sees a similar kind of intolerance in society's attitude toward mutants (read:homosexuals). His problem is he ultimately doesn't believe in diversity and tolerance either, but in doing something, anything, so that mutants are no longer a persecuted minority- for example, trying to turn all the regular people into mutants. The real answer, according to the moviemakers, is to let mutants be mutants and regular people be regular people, and why can't we all get just along.

They do explore an interesting question within the homosexual world, namely if you could change yourself into a regular person would/should you. Some of the protagonists come out very strongly against such an idea, saying mutant is who you are and to try to change that is to deny your very self, and they see that underlying the desire of regular people that mutants become one of them is ultimately a desire that there be no more mutants at all. Rogue, however, who has suffered so much isolation because of her mutation, ultimately goes for it, and thus is finally able to touch and be touched without fear of harming anyone, and it is very difficult for the viewer not to feel that the decision was right for her.

This isn't quite a silver lining to the series, but it does show an attempt for the movies to be more than simply a pro-homosexual monologue.

[/quote]

Threads like this help remind me how conservative and right-wing this forum really is.

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:6, topic:243118"]
A simple search with google will bring up numerous web sites that have come to the same conclusion. (first 3 links)

[/quote]

A simple Google search will also bring up numerous sites claiming Elvis is alive or that the Moon Landing was a fake.

[quote="AngryAtheist8, post:11, topic:243118"]
A simple Google search will also bring up numerous sites claiming Elvis is alive or that the Moon Landing was a fake.

[/quote]

I couldn't have said it better myself. :p (And I don't often find myself siding with atheists/agnostics in debates.)

By the way, not all of us on the CAF site are crazy right-wingers who confuse the Republican Party with the Catholic Church.

Anyway, I really don't think a series of poorly made action films are all that big of a deal. Big explosions, the same tired sex jokes, and pathetic one-liners make up more of these films than any political statements. These films are just as worthless as the Rambo or Die Hard movies.

The second X-men movie rises above the cliche of the summer blockbuster at times, especially in the way it shows two characters in the form of Wolverine and Col.Stryker who are contrasted with each other. With the former been puportedly a feral and violent man and the latter a senior military officer who is purportedly the face of legitimate authority. Yet it is the former who is willing to risk his life protecting children and the latter who has given in to despair and pride as well as let an incipient bigotry corrupt him. Interestingly part of the second X-men movie is drawn from a graphic novel called 'God loves, Man kills' in which Stryker is a fundamentalist preacher who attempts to convince humanity that mutants need to be killed as they are abominations in the sight of God. His points of view are offset against other characters, including some of the X-men who are religiously devout in various faiths. Stryker ironically enough makes a point of using Nightcrawler who is a devout Catholic as an illustration of why he feels mutants must be eradicated, Which is followed by his team mate Kitty Pryde who is a young Jewish girl protesting the vileness of such a message and who it runs contrary to God's law. Stryker actually shows how morally bankrupt he is at this point by pulling a gun and getting ready to shoot her. He is however shot by one of his own security guards before he can proceed. This is one of the better X-men stories and is the main inspiration for a great deal of the second X-men movie, it also has a fair bit of Magneto (who at this point was trying to reform) speculating on the nature of such individuals and pointing out he knows personally how easy it is to subscribe to such views.

Although the X-men are less directly about racial prejudice these days and can be viewed more as a metaphor for a variety of prejudices the Civil Rights era they existed in initially did play a significant part in shaping the franchise. Especially as Stan Lee and Jack Kirby who created them were strongly opposed to segregation and made no secret of that in their work. Magneto though was at this point a more one dimensional villain, it was not till the late 70's and early 80's he began to be fleshed out a bit more and made a Malcolm X to Xavier's Martin Luther King. He has been a hero and villian on and off since then.

As a comic book (and movie) series the X-men portray characters whose lifestyles are not always perfectly in accord with Catholic teaching. That's as it should be, the authors are not attempting to write tracts but works which are entertaining and that requires a varied cast. Actually the X-men comics during their earlier years hold the distinction of been one of the few superhero comics to handle religion with respect and intelligence. In recent years under other writers that has sadly not been the case and one story line in the last decade or so was anti-Catholic to a ludicrous degree and is infamous among fans of the series for it's many idiocies. At it's best though when it did occassionally touch on religion you had characters comparing their faiths in a manner that served to flesh out characters without ridiculing anyone's faith.

I think that this opinion is really only held by a small amount of people. I plan on seeing the next X-men movie when I get the chance.

It seems that if you look at anything hard enough, you can find something bad about it.

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:1, topic:243118"]
I mean the "X" in X-Men.

[/quote]

I think the "X" is supposed to represent for Professor Xavier

I've seen all the movies. I believe they contain a lot of subtle liberal propaganda

X-Men was created to be a metaphorical critique on bigotry. It's not liberal propaganda. it's just humane

[quote="kmuestwin, post:14, topic:243118"]
I plan on seeing the next X-men movie when I get the chance.
/QUOTE]
It's awesome!

[/quote]

[quote="JMartyr73340, post:6, topic:243118"]

Brett Ratner’s addition to the franchise, “X-Men: The Last Stand,” includes a character new to the “X-Men” films, Angel, whose disapproving father finds him trying to hack off a pair of wings attached to his back. As a child, Angel is deeply ashamed of his ethereal nature. As an adult, he finds that he can literally fly away from parental rejection.

[/quote]

I thought Angel was a GIRL - specifically, the one working in the adult establishment in Las Vegas when she's "hired" away by Professor X. I don't remember there being a GUY with wings. :confused:

How bizarre. I would say that I no more believe this than that the moon is made of green cheese. I do not doubt that homosexual groups might have used this as a metaphor for their movement. That is human nature to always see oneself as the hero when they watch super hero movies. This does not make me Thor.

[quote="havana1, post:17, topic:243118"]
I thought Angel was a GIRL - specifically, the one working in the adult establishment in Las Vegas when she's "hired" away by Professor X. I don't remember there being a GUY with wings. :confused:

[/quote]

Angel or the Angel as he has also been called is one of the founding members of the X-men in the comics and in the the third movie they use him as each movie tended to introduce several new characters. The movies differ a lot though from the continuity of the comics, which is inevitable as the movie uses a X-men team close to the period when the book became most popular in the late 70's and early 80's. In it's original run though X-men was not all that succesful a book and was actually cancelled at issue 93 and restarted at issue 94 several years later. The original team was Jean Grey (Marvel Girl), Angel, Cyclops, Beast and Iceman. They use all of them in the movies but Beast, Angel and Iceman are used in different ways. Iceman of course been de-aged to a teenager. Rogue is also de-aged somewhat as she is a woman in her early to mid twenties in the comic and was super-strong and could fly due to absorbing a character's powers permanetly. She's actually been remade to be a bit closer to the movie version recently.

[quote="AngryAtheist8, post:11, topic:243118"]
A simple Google search will also bring up numerous sites claiming Elvis is alive or that the Moon Landing was a fake.

[/quote]

Lame reponse. The claims made by "Elvis" web sites can be easily disproven. Not so for what I posted.

By the way, not all of us on the CAF site are crazy right-wingers who confuse the Republican Party with the Catholic Church.

Stereotyping people because they suggested something negative about a movie you like is even worse.

In conclusion, if you're going to criticize something publicly, at least have the decency to learn something about it first.

These forums are for public discusson and suggesting ideas. At least have the decency to restrain your fanboy tendencies and not make dumb accusatons. I've seen all four movies and I've discussed the gay themes in it with a friend of mine who is a homsexual.

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