Does there have to be a last day

I was thinking about this issue regarding the last day and was wondering why there has to be a final day in which babies are born, in which couples are married and in which sinners are condemned. Realistically humanity can continue reproducing for eternity, though not in Heaven but only in their earthly lives, in a sense humanity can continue eternally reproducing itself, does there have to be a set number of humans? Fr Ronald Rolheiser said this which got me thinking and starting this thread: But, still, what about the question of when the world will end?
Perhaps, given the infinity of God, it will never end. Because when do infinite creativity and love reach their limit? When do they say: “Enough! That’s all! These are the limits of our creativity and love!”

Well, at some point, the sun will turn into a red giant and expand beyond our orbit. People won’t be around to see it, of course…

But rather than, “This is the limit of my creativity and love”, do you think, perhaps, it might be more accurate to say, “This is the end of the beginning part. Now we get on to the good stuff…”


What about the reproducing part, some may argue that say 20, 30, 40 billion humans is not enough, others may argue that it is enough, in a sense there can never be enough people!

God is infinite. We are not infinite. God is love. We are not love. We are finite and have a beginning and an end, unlike God.


I am saying that we have a beginning and an end, what I am advocating for is the motion that humans can carry on reproducing for ever, that is we can see humans being born, marrying, dying forever without a limit, that the only judgement is the particular one, that judgement will be our final judgement so to speak.

Well, we are biological beings, and we have evolved and if we were to travel to other planets or star systems, we would have to either terraform those planets to our biological requirements, which might be okay - or the other option would be that future generations would have to be genetically able to adapt to the new environment. If it is a close twin to Earth, that might not be difficult. But if its atmosphere is different, or the majority of its climate at the limits of warmth or cold to which humans could adapt, only some could survive, and their offspring would possibly become different from us original Earthlings. Another issue, fraught with ethical and moral quandaries, would be genetically modifying humans so they could adapt. For Catholics this would present a problem. So maybe we’re better off if God calls us home before the Sun starts to move off the Main Sequence.

As a science fiction fan (not that it’s obvious or anything, LOL :grin: ) interstellar colonization does sound like a grand adventure, and part of me is sad it won’t take place, even if I’ll be long dead in any case before it would. But it seems somewhat unlikely, really.

Like St Augustine says, compared to the Beatific Vision, any number of blessings you can think of in this life cannot even compare. So this world has to end, it is not our final destiny.


Even the latest scientific thinking contradicts this.

But the question isn’t “interstellar colonization”, is it? Isn’t it really “star death” or “big crunch”, or some other universe-ending-event?

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I think humanity will exist for as-long as our universe or earth exists. This is to say that humanity will die from natural causes. I don’t think God will interfere with our natural course of events, and i think there will be a natural-end to our number. This is just my opinion of course.

Depending on how one is permitted to interpret scripture it would appear that the end is a supernatural event. But i am not sure that one has to view this as an interference from God in the natural course of space-time. This is to say it is not my opinion that God will purposely cut short the natural development of humanity. But i could be wrong.

If we view each universe as a potential harvest, i don’t think that God will come until that harvest is complete.

But what if humanity is reborn?

What if reality really is cyclical per CCC or some other such method. What if humanity never ends?

It depends on how it is achieved and how it interferes with the fulfilment of our nature. For example, if genetic modification mean’t that we could live longer but also came at the expense of our capacity to discern right and wrong, this would be Against the church; thus creating amoral super soldiers is out of the question.

Yes indeed, and i regret that i won’t be there to marvel.

I’m not so sure that I won’t be.

The way you present a cyclical universe is like a perpetual motion machine. I’m not sure that it is even possible to keep producing the same effect, even if it is cyclical. But if it is a cyclical universe in the same sense that you present it, then i suppose it’s possible that the human race will be reborn; i don’t know.

I use to think that we are trapped in a cosmic loop.

I do recall hearing somewhere about a new heaven and a new earth…now where was that…?

I don’t think it’s logically necessary for there to be a last day, other than the fact that God has decided and revealed that to us, so it will happen.

My grasp of scripture isn’t what it used to be, could you please refer me to the relevant verses.

Can’t have our “feet” both here on Earth and in Heaven. we will have to say good bye to our Earthly life to receive our Heavenly life. NOTHING here is worth missing Heaven.

Even if you don’t believe in God at all, the odds are that the world, as in Earth, will end, whether it’s caused by changes in our sun or by some large meteorite crashing into us or some other interplanetary phenomena.

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True, but that doesn’t eliminate the possibility that there won’t be a new heaven and a new earth, or that that can’t be a perfectly natural process.

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