Does this mean it's a sin to go to public school?


#1

I don’t have the context of these quotes, but are they saying it’s a sin to go to public school? I’ve been going to public school all my life and now am in a public university since we don’t have any catholic ones, and it’s way too expensive

•The Church cannot approve schools which exclude religion from the curriculum, both because religion is the most important subject in education, and because she contends that even secular education is not possible in its best form unless religion be made the central, vitalizing, and co-ordinating factor in the life of the child. The Church, sometimes, tolerates schools in which religion is not taught, and permits Catholic children to attend them, when the circumstances are such as to leave no alternative, and when due precautions are taken to supply by other means the religious training which such schools do not give. She reserves the right to judge whether this be the case, and, if her judgment is unfavourable, claims the right to forbid attendance" (Letter of Gregory XVI to Irish Bishops, 1831).
•"…Those parents who allow their children to frequent schools where it is impossible to avoid the loss of souls… according to Catholic moral teaching, such parents, should they persist in their attitude, cannot receive absolution in the Sacrament of Penance." Instructions Of The Holy Office To The Bishops Of The U.S., Pope Pius IX, 1875
•“It is, then, incumbent on parents to strain every nerve to ward off such an outrage, and to strive manfully to have and to hold exclusive authority to direct the education of their offspring, as is fitting, in a Christian manner, and first and foremost to keep them away from schools where there is risk of their drinking in the poison of impiety” Sapientiae Christianae, Pope Leo XIII, 1890
•“First, Catholics should not choose mixed schools but have their own schools especially for children. They should choose excellent and reputable teachers for them. For an education in which religion is altered or non-existent is a very dangerous education” Militantis Ecclesiae, Pope Leo XIII, 1897
•“Obviously the need of this Christian instruction is accentuated by the decline of our times and morals. It is even more demanded by the existence of those public schools, lacking all religion, where everything holy is ridiculed and scorned. There both teachers’ lips and students’ ears are inclined to godlessness. We are referring to those schools which are unjustly called neutral or lay. In reality, they are nothing more than the stronghold of the powers of darkness.” Editae Saepe, Pope St. Pius X, 1910
•"Duty of Attending Only Catholic Schools. Catholic children may not attend non-Catholic, neutral, or mixed-schools, that is, those which are open also to non-Catholics, and it pertains exclusively to the Ordinary of the place to decide, in accordance with instructions of the Holy See, under what circumstances and with what precautions against the danger of perversion, attendance at such schools may be tolerated (Canon 1374).
"1. Neutral schools are those which exclude religion by p rescinding from it, such as the public schools in the United States. Mixed schools are those which admit pupils of any or no religion. Catholic schools, however, even though they admit some non-Catholic pupils, do not come under this classification.
"2. Does the provision of canon 1374 apply only to elementary and high schools, or also the colleges and universities?
"a. The natural law itself forbids Catholics to attend schools, whatever their grade, if they are dangerous to faith or morals. Both common experience and many documents of the Holy See prove that this danger may exist not only in the elementary and high school but in college and university as well. (As to elementary and high schools, especially the public schools in the U.S., see Instruction of the Holy Office, 24 Nov., 1875. As to colleges and universities, see S.C. Prop. Fid., 7 Apr. 1860; Fontes, n. 4649, Vol. VII, p. 381, and earlier documents there cited; also S.C. Prop. Fid., 6 Aug. 1867; Fontes, n. 4868, Vol. VII, p. 405.) ‘It is almost if not quite impossible for those circumstances to exist which would render attendance at non-Catholic universities free from sin.’ (S.C. Prop. Fid., 6 Aug. 1867; Fontes, n. 4868, Vol. VII, p. 405.) It was in regard to universities that the Holy See declared: ‘The unformed and unstable characters of young people, the erroneous teaching which is inhaled as it were with the very atmosphere in those institutions without being offset by the antidote of solid doctrine, the great power exerted over the young by human respect and the fear of ridicule on the part of their fellows–all these things produce such a present and proximate danger of falling away, that in general no sufficient reason can be conceived for entrusting for entrusting Catholic young people to non-Catholic universities.’ (Encyclical of the S.C. Prop. Fid., to the Bishops of England, 6 Aug. 1867; Fontes, n. 4868, Vol. VII pg. 405.)
“b. The only thing which this canon adds to the obligation of the natural law is the provision that it is for the Ordinary of the place to decide in accordance with the instructions of the Holy See, under what circumstances and with what precautions against the danger of perversion, such attendance may be permitted… Does it apply equally to colleges and universities? We think that no such strict canonical requirement can be proved… In the absence of such legislation, parents and young people are bound by the natural law to remove effectively the danger of perversion by employing safeguards which are really sufficient. It is prudent and advisable, not strictly obligatory, to consult the Ordinary on the sufficiency of these precautions.” From Canon Law: A Text and Commentary, by Bouscaren and Ellis (1951, pgs. 762-4)


#2

It is a grave sin for parents to send their children to public schools and those schools which have the name Catholic but do not provide good moral teaching and a good Catholic environment, unless there is a genuine necessity. The obligation to protect the souls of children from bad influences (i.e. the false religions of atheism and paganism etc., false philosophies and lax morals) comes from the natural law and not primarily from the law of the Church.
What counts as ‘necessity’ is debatable, but the eternal salvation of both parents and children is at stake. It is a miracle for children who have been sent to bad Catholic schools and godless schools to keep the Faith, let alone keep their souls unstained by mortal sin. I know that for myself as an adult it is difficult to resist sin when surrounded by non-Catholics but this must be so much more difficult for an inexperienced and easily influenced child who craves the friendship of his peers, the approval of his teachers and is naturally curious, as almost all children are.
We have an obligation to avoid those people who lead us into sin and worldliness and to put children into such serious spiritual danger requires a very serious necessity.
I suggest that only extreme poverty or a well-founded fear of having the state steal your children for teaching them at home excuses from the obligation.


#3

You must ask yourself whether you are in serious danger at university, particularly from human respect and worldly philosophies. Where would you be if you were not at university and would your soul be safer?


#4

When those documents were written, there were Catholic schools staffed by religious and supported by the parishes. Now we have schools of all different wualities in terms kf the Faith) and many are very expensive, which adds up.

Since an obligation is lifted if it is impossible to carry out, I would say that there probably was no sin involved in your education.

And considering the number of people who were educated in Catholic schools back in the day who fell away, going to Catholic school is no guarantee that one’s children will stay Catholic :frowning:

Angell,
you have kept your faith–it seems like your parents did something right :slight_smile:


#5

In a word, no.

I really urge you to stay away from whatever site or people are filling your head with this nonsense about school and pants.

Trust your local pastor.


#6

I suggest reading this:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_gravissimum-educationis_en.html


#7

I didn’t learn my faith because of my parents, or because of my parish, of because or school

I learned from the good people on caf who answered my frequent, long and probably quite annoying questions. I learned from good website[RIGHT]s and articles that could explain things well[/RIGHT], and I learned the best when I ran in to anti-Catholic information that made me question what I was really believing and why


#8

I I wasn’t at university, I wouldn’t have developed many skills that I have, wouldn’t be involved in evangelization outreach by the campus catholic club and wouldn’t have been selected to participate in a mission this upcoming summer.

never gave it much thought until I ran across those quotes. how are we suppose to witness to the world if we are in a catholic bubble


#9

thanks, this was informative

what are the quotes of the previous popes talking about then? were schools different in those times?


#10

Wait. You want the person to stay away from this site?
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=944873
:eek:


#11

Apparently I do. If that’s the sort of crazy talk going on.


#12

Maybe you could drive by and offer your wisdom…:wink:


#13

No.
Not at all.
Do you honestly feel that those children in places with no faith-based schools are incurring sin by learning there? Or their parents are sinning because they don’t have resources to send them elsewhere?
Common sense says no.
I say NO.


#14

Lots of things were different in those times. But you also need to account for the fact that some of those quotes are theologians and lay people writing about what they believe ayn specific document meant.

The Church teaching is clear and concise:
-Parents are the primary educators of their children (CCC 2223)


#15

:thumbsup:


#16

:thumbsup:


#17

well, no, I think those would be exceptional circumstances

but what if academics at a public school was better or something.

or for me personally, my parents really wanted me to learn French but the French schools are not catholic

and a lot of catholic colleges have limited selection of programs


#18

Yep, those are all things a parent must consider when deciding which school to send a child to.


#19

I thought those were direct quotes?

how do you know it was theologians and lay people?

on the flip side, It didn’t say it was always forbidden, that we had to be prudent and evaluate each individual circumstance

and I guess things have changed, there are less cahotlic schools, they are more expensive, they often don’t have a lot of programs. and public unverzsities, at least, will have cahotlic clubs or chaplaincies on campus


#20

•The Church cannot approve schools which exclude religion from the curriculum, both because religion is the most important subject in education, and because she contends that even secular education is not possible in its best form unless religion be made the central, vitalizing, and co-ordinating factor in the life of the child. The Church, sometimes, tolerates schools in which religion is not taught, and permits Catholic children to attend them, when the circumstances are such as to leave no alternative, and when due precautions are taken to supply by other means the religious training which such schools do not give. She reserves the right to judge whether this be the case, and, if her judgment is unfavourable, claims the right to forbid attendance" (Letter of Gregory XVI to Irish Bishops, 1831). Pope, writing to Bishops of Ireland…on a specific matter pertaining to Ireland, in the context of Irish schools]

•"…Those parents who allow their children to frequent schools where it is impossible to avoid the loss of souls… according to Catholic moral teaching, such parents, should they persist in their attitude, cannot receive absolution in the Sacrament of Penance." Instructions Of The Holy Office To The Bishops Of The U.S., Pope Pius IX, 1875 Pope, writing specifically to US and specifically in regards to schools “where it is impossible to avoid the loss of souls”, which does NOT mean “all public schools”]

•“It is, then, incumbent on parents to strain every nerve to ward off such an outrage, and to strive manfully to have and to hold exclusive authority to direct the education of their offspring, as is fitting, in a Christian manner, and first and foremost to keep them away from schools where there is risk of their drinking in the poison of impiety” Sapientiae Christianae, Pope Leo XIII, 1890 Pope]

•“First, Catholics should not choose mixed schools but have their own schools especially for children. They should choose excellent and reputable teachers for them. For an education in which religion is altered or non-existent is a very dangerous education” Militantis Ecclesiae, Pope Leo XIII, 1897 Are you starting to see the trend yet? These Popes are addressing specific issues in a specific time which is NOT an across-the-board condemnation of public schools]

•“Obviously the need of this Christian instruction is accentuated by the decline of our times and morals. It is even more demanded by the existence of those public schools, lacking all religion, where everything holy is ridiculed and scorned. There both teachers’ lips and students’ ears are inclined to godlessness. We are referring to those schools which are unjustly called neutral or lay. In reality, they are nothing more than the stronghold of the powers of darkness.” Editae Saepe,** Pope St. Pius X, **1910 Notice what he SAID vs. what someone is trying to put in his mouth. He did NOT say it’s a sin to go to public school…he said that because public schools scorn religion, there is therefor a need for Christian instruction. And the Church teaches that parents are the primary source for this (CCC 2223).]

•"Duty of Attending Only Catholic Schools. Catholic children may not attend non-Catholic, neutral, or mixed-schools, that is, those which are open also to non-Catholics, and it pertains exclusively to the Ordinary of the place to decide, in accordance with instructions of the Holy See, under what circumstances and with what precautions against the danger of perversion, attendance at such schools may be tolerated (Canon 1374). This Canon was abrogated, meaning it no longer exists. The current Can 1374 has noting to do with this topic: vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P53.HTM ]

"1. Neutral schools are those which exclude religion by p rescinding from it, such as the public schools in the United States. Mixed schools are those which admit pupils of any or no religion. Catholic schools, however, even though they admit some non-Catholic pupils, do not come under this classification. Not a Pope]

"2. Does the provision of canon 1374 apply only to elementary and high schools, or also the colleges and universities? Again, someone is using an old law that no longer exists. This is misrepresentation at the very least.]

“b. The only thing which this canon adds to the obligation of the natural law is the provision that it is for the Ordinary of the place to decide in accordance with the instructions of the Holy See, under what circumstances and with what precautions against the danger of perversion, such attendance may be permitted… Does it apply equally to colleges and universities? We think that no such strict canonical requirement can be proved… In the absence of such legislation, parents and young people are bound by the natural law to remove effectively the danger of perversion by employing safeguards which are really sufficient. It is prudent and advisable, not strictly obligatory, to consult the Ordinary on the sufficiency of these precautions.” From Canon Law: A Text and Commentary, by Bouscaren and Ellis (1951, pgs. 762-4)
not Popes, and discussing a Canon that no longer exists, back when it used to exist]


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