Does Your Bishop Believe in the Devil?


#1

Some Bishops no longer believe in Satan - the devil. The address is:kensmen.com/catholic/amorth.html . John Paul II said to not believe in the devil is not to believe the Scriptures!

**"Fr. Amorth: **No. I will tell you a story. When I met Don Pellegrino Ernetti for the first time, a celebrated exorcist who had practiced in Venice for forty years, I said to him, “If I could speak to the Pope, I would tell him that I meet too many bishops who do not believe in the devil.” The following afternoon, Father Ernetti came back to see me to tell me that that same morning he had been received by John Paul II. “Holiness,” he had said to him, “there is an exorcist here in Rome, Father Amorth who, if he met you, would tell you that he knows too many bishops who do not believe in the devil.” The Pope answered him briefly: “He who does not believe in the devil does not believe in the Gospel.” That is the reply which was given to him and which I repeat.

**30 Days: **Explain to me if you would: does this mean that there are many bishops and priests who are no longer Catholic?

Fr. Amorth: Let us say that they do not believe in a Gospel truth. Therefore, I would possibly accuse them of propagating a heresy. But let us understand: someone is only formally heretical if he is accused of committing an error and he persists in it. But because of the situation in the Church today, no one would ever accuse a bishop of not believing in the devil or in demonic possession and of not appointing exorcists because he has no belief in these things. I could mention a great number of bishops and cardinals who, as soon as they had been appointed to a diocese, withdrew from all exorcists the faculty of exercising their powers. Or of bishops who openly maintain: “For myself, I do not believe in these things. They are beliefs of the past.” Why is this? Because unfortunately there has been an extremely pernicious influence exerted by certain biblical experts, and I could mention the names of some very well-known people. We who every day come into close contact with the world beyond, we know that this influence has had a hand in many of the liturgical reforms. "

Does your Bishop give any evidence that he believes in the devil?


#2

I just heard a talk from Father Corapi, and he will tell you that the devil is certainly real. But sadly, I think he would also agree that Satan has done a great job in convincing a great many within the Church (Priests and Bishops) that he does not exist. When was the last time anyone heard a homily on the devil?

Sad. Pray and pray some more that this turns around.


#3

I met with a new Priest in my parish and I was floored when I brought up the subject of the devil he spoke of him as being a myth. I then met with an 80 year old priest who I’ve known and he was outraged he said “This is what they’re teaching in the seminaries now”. I will go with what JPII says.


#4

Is Fr. Amorth a Traditional Catholic? The site that has the interview is definitely Traditional. I read Amorth’s An Exorcist, More Stories and enjoyed it. I’d be interested in knowing more about him. His remarks in the interview don’t make him out to be a Trad. Cath. I enjoyed the interview, especially this:

**30 Days: **Don’t you ever feel afraid of the demon?

Fr. Amorth: Me, for that animal? It is he who should be afraid of me; I act in the name of the Lord of the world. But as for him, he is nothing but God’s monkey.

  • JP

#5

Jesus never said that we should be afraid of the devil. Instead Jesus said for us to resist the devil.

He also said:

Luke 10:19 “I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions, and to overcome all the powers of the enemy.”

Pio


#6

[quote=j_arden]Is Fr. Amorth a Traditional Catholic? The site that has the interview is definitely Traditional. I read Amorth’s An Exorcist, More Stories and enjoyed it. I’d be interested in knowing more about him. His remarks in the interview don’t make him out to be a Trad. Cath. . . .
[/quote]

Note that he is Chief Exorcist for the diocese of Rome , thus he works directly for Pope John Paul II, his bishop. Also note that Father Groeschel wrote the foreword for the American edition of his first book - .** An Exorcist Tells His Story ** I consider those good recommendations for his orthodoxy and faithfulness.


#7

The situation with some bishops and priests in today’s “progressive” Church is scarier than the movie, The Exorcist. Following up on Pope Paul VI, the smoke of Satan has now advanced beyond the vestibule of the Church. We must continually pray, pray, pray for our bishops, priests, deacons, sisters, and brothers.


#8

My Bishop believes in the devil, but more importantly, the devil believes in my Bishop!


#9

Father Amorth, with all due respect, is kinda looney, so take what he says with a grain of salt. I think old age has krept up with him.

For more info on his works, go here.


#10

[quote=Exporter]Some Bishops no longer believe in Satan - the devil. The address is:kensmen.com/catholic/amorth.html . John Paul II said to not believe in the devil is not to believe the Scriptures!
[/quote]

Nor does the Church “believe in” the devil. There is a big difference betweeen “belief in” God, and “belief that” there is a God - or a devil, for that matter. The former is an excercise of personal commitment to God in faith; the latter, is an acceptance that a God exists, without such a commitment in faith. And the existence of the devil is not a commitment of the self to the devil - the existence of this being is recognised, but this recognition calls for no involvement with it: the reverse, if anything :slight_smile:

Fr. Amorth: No. I will tell you a story. When I met Don Pellegrino Ernetti for the first time, a celebrated exorcist who had practiced in Venice for forty years, I said to him, “If I could speak to the Pope, I would tell him that I meet too many bishops who do not believe in the devil.” The following afternoon, Father Ernetti came back to see me to tell me that that same morning he had been received by John Paul II. “Holiness,” he had said to him, “there is an exorcist here in Rome, Father Amorth who, if he met you, would tell you that he knows too many bishops who do not believe in the devil.” The Pope answered him briefly: “He who does not believe in the devil does not believe in the Gospel.” That is the reply which was given to him and which I repeat.

**30 Days: **Explain to me if you would: does this mean that there are many bishops and priests who are no longer Catholic?

Fr. Amorth: Let us say that they do not believe in a Gospel truth. Therefore, I would possibly accuse them of propagating a heresy. But let us understand: someone is only formally heretical if he is accused of committing an error and he persists in it. But because of the situation in the Church today, no one would ever accuse a bishop of not believing in the devil or in demonic possession and of not appointing exorcists because he has no belief in these things. I could mention a great number of bishops and cardinals who, as soon as they had been appointed to a diocese, withdrew from all exorcists the faculty of exercising their powers. Or of bishops who openly maintain: “For myself, I do not believe in these things. They are beliefs of the past.” Why is this? Because unfortunately there has been an extremely pernicious influence exerted by certain biblical experts, and I could mention the names of some very well-known people. We who every day come into close contact with the world beyond, we know that this influence has had a hand in many of the liturgical reforms. "

Does your Bishop give any evidence that he believes in the devil?

That’s not for us to expect, IMO - as long as bishops believe in Christ & act accordingly, the devil is of very little consequence. We are not the judges of the bishops’ orthodoxy - as we are continually being told, “the church is not a democracy”, so it matters not a jot whether bishops are orthodox or not. For either way, we can do nothing about them, and it is wrong even to think of doing so. They rule - we don’t. End of story.

It is quite repugnant that a priest should have the gall to accuse unspecified bishops of unspecified errors. This does nothing but spread unfounded suspicions and wound the unity of the Church.

The devil deserves no attention whatever. ##


#11

Hello GottleofGreer,

I am sorry about the title I used, I was attempting to be brief. You comment “belief in, believe that it exists and believe and honor”. I paraphrased to be brief again. Yes the Devil belives that Jesus exists but doesn’t “belive in Him”.

You wrote,“The devil deserves no attention whatever. ##”

I disagree with that statement. As Fr. Amorth said…the devil wants you to believe that he doesn’t exist. If we follow your advice then I think the devil is clapping his hands. The point was that many Bishops have not appointed an Exorcist. This is contrary to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. The Church has had Excorcists for many centuries. Why? Because there are a few cases in which an Excorcist is required.

Pope John Paul II said if a man or a Bishop does not believe in the existance of the devil, then they don’t belive the Scriptures. I say if they don’t believe the Scriptures then they are not Catholic.


#12

[quote=Steve Girone]When was the last time anyone heard a homily on the devil?

[/quote]

Yesterday :smiley:


#13

Hahahah, what a topic for my 666th post just above!


#14

Dunno. Never asked him. I imagine that he’s a devout, orthodox Roman Catholic and therefore DOES believe in a fallen angel named Lucifer (Satan) who is normally referred to as “the Devil.”


#15

[quote=Exporter]Hello GottleofGreer,

I am sorry about the title I used, I was attempting to be brief. You comment “belief in, believe that it exists and believe and honor”. I paraphrased to be brief again. Yes the Devil belives that Jesus exists but doesn’t “belive in Him”.

You wrote,“The devil deserves no attention whatever. ##”

I disagree with that statement. As Fr. Amorth said…the devil wants you to believe that he doesn’t exist. If we follow your advice then I think the devil is clapping his hands. The point was that many Bishops have not appointed an Exorcist. This is contrary to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. The Church has had Excorcists for many centuries. Why? Because there are a few cases in which an Excorcist is required.

Pope John Paul II said if a man or a Bishop does not believe in the existance of the devil, then they don’t belive the Scriptures. I say if they don’t believe the Scriptures then they are not Catholic.
[/quote]

The reason I am so certain that the devil is unworthy of attention is that:

  1. St. Philip Neri had the same attitude - at a time when Christians on both side of the recent splits were obsessed with the devil.

  2. It is very probable that he learnt it from the Desert Fathers

  3. “The devil is a proud spirit, and cannot endure to be mocked” - St. Thomas More

  4. Christianity is not about the devil but about Our Lord Jesus Christ

  5. We can adore God and by doing so, think rightly about what is unworthy of Him - but thinking of the devil brings no certainty that we shall think of, let alone adore, God.

  6. I believe the Scriptures - but why should any Christian give something so self-conceited as the devil any attention ? it’s unworthy of it.

  7. People become like that of which they think - if we have our hearts and minds set on Jesus Christ, we shall become like Him :slight_smile:

  8. If we darken our minds with thinking of the other thing, we shall become like it - which will weaken our sensitivity to good and our ability to respond to good: which would be self-defeating.

  9. “The devil fell by force of gravity” (Chesterton) - St.Philip was a Saint because he had no such attitude, but refused to take himself seriously - and refused to allow those whom he loved, to do so either :). Hence his constant practical jokes :slight_smile: He lacked all self-importance and self-conceit: things which in us are just what the enemy takes advantage of.

Let us rather think of what is good and holy and full of light, peace, joy, gladness, & truth - not of the devil.

The devil is like a thoroughly nasty child - always seeking to be the centre of attention. I say we ignore it. Not least because it is by nature a foe beyond any of us - but seeing Our Lord has crushed its head, that is all we have to do too, by sticking close to Him, and thinking of Him, and being filled with Him :slight_smile: ##


#16

I recently heard a homily on the devil, as well as a talk outside of mass about him. I think we will be hearing more about the devil as younger (more orthodox) priests are ordained. Seminaries are getting better.

-PioMagnus


#17

I think we will be hearing more about the devil as younger (more orthodox) priests are ordained.

I don’t see any “young orthodoxy” from the newly-ordained young priests down here in South Florida. Here, the seminarians are mostly Hatians and Cubans who mostly care about social work. Orthodoxy is dead, down here in the Archdiocese of Miami. Dead.


#18

I met with a new Priest in my parish and I was floored when I brought up the subject of the devil he spoke of him as being a myth. I then met with an 80 year old priest who I’ve known and he was outraged he said “This is what they’re teaching in the seminaries now”. I will go with what JPII says.

Just to let you know not all seminaries are like that. Infact Fr. Baer, the rector of my seminary has shown us that the devil is real and we have to watch out for him. I had a long talk with a fellow brother seminarian a few nights ago about his experiences with the devil. He had a couple amazing stories about exorcisms. I never really thought about the devil until I entered the seminary a few months ago.


#19

I don’t see any “young orthodoxy” from the newly-ordained young priests down here in South Florida. Here, the seminarians are mostly Hatians and Cubans who mostly care about social work. Orthodoxy is dead, down here in the Archdiocese of Miami. Dead.

Tell your Bishop to send your seminarians to St. John Vianney Seminary in St. Paul, MN. Any man that comes out of this sem will come out orthodox. Several years ago that wouldn’t have been the case but Fr. Baer has done a lot for the Seminary. Just one example is that we are required to be down at our chapel at 6:00am for a Holy hour and mass everyday,I know there are seminaries that don’t even require a Holy hour everyday.


#20

[quote=DominvsVobiscvm]Father Amorth, with all due respect, is kinda looney, so take what he says with a grain of salt. I think old age has krept up with him.

For more info on his works, go here.
[/quote]

You are so wrong :banghead:


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