Doesn't Catholicm fit the Protestant view of salvation?


#1

My question: Why do certain Protestant denominations (those that subscribe to sola scriptura and affirm that the path to salvation lies in faith alone) believe that Catholics won’t be saved when we believe, as they do, that Christ is the Savior who died for our sins and through him we will be saved?

If we share the same core belief of accepting Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior, why do certain Protestants feel that we won’t be saved? Especially, if these same Protestants subscribe to the belief that once you attain salvation, there is nothing you can do to lose it?

Peace and God bless!

Eric


#2

I used to be a fundamentalist Protestant before becoming Catholic, and the perception was that Catholics worshipped Mary, and were too imbued with paganism (i.e statue ‘worship’, prayers for the dead ) to be Christian.


#3

I think it’s because they think our reliance on the sacraments, good works, basically the “trappings of religion” show that we don’t think Christ is enough and so we really don’t believe He is our savior. The reasoning goes that if we really believed Christ was our savior, we wouldn’t need anything else but belief in HIm. This is of course nonsense, and it shows very little understanding of what the sacraments and the Church are. This belief sees things like the sacraments as impediments to Christ, as things opposed to Christ. But that’s what I’ve heard from some Protestants. On the other hand, I’ve had some Protestant (pentecostal) co-workers tell me that I am saved because I believe in Jesus and I don’t have to worry about sinning. There’s a wide variety of belief in protestantism.


#4

[quote=RNRobert]I used to be a fundamentalist Protestant before becoming Catholic, and the perception was that Catholics worshipped Mary, and were too imbued with paganism (i.e statue ‘worship’, prayers for the dead ) to be Christian.
[/quote]

Thank you for this insight. My question to you is that if this truly was the case, would not the “there is no sin that cannot be forgiven except the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit” come into play here?

In other words, if we Catholics accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior and we simply were misled into worshiping Mary and the saints (because the priests and nuns told us to), wouldn’t we still be saved because these sins would be forgiven because of our faith?


#5

When the orchestrators of the Protestant reformation decided to “protest” or break away from the Church, they needed an angle to make this take root. The idea of self-interpretation of sacred scripture allowed them to read and point to passages, take them out of context, and use them to make it seem as though the Catholic Church practiced idolatry, was given to “vain repetition” in prayer, and was superstitious.

What Martin Luther began as a genuine desire to reform certain things that had gone wrong with the Church at his time (such as the corruption of some local representatives of the Church, and the use of money to gain political favor and buy indulgences, etc…) was twisted into something that was never launched as a strictly theological protest – yet we all see now what that devolved into.

Now, many Protestants find their very identity in their non-Catholicism, and staunchly refuse to examine what we do indeed believe, or to accept that it is very nearly what they also believe. They rob themselves of the fullness of truth by setting themselves apart from the Church and her traditions. Very few Protestants actually know what it is they are “protesting” in being Protestant, because we now have 8 or 9 generations of them who have never been taught the history of the Church or of the movement which caused them to break away. All they know is “Protestant Good. Catholic Bad.”


#6

[quote=Minerva]I think it’s because they think our reliance on the sacraments, good works, basically the “trappings of religion” show that we don’t think Christ is enough and so we really don’t believe He is our savior. The reasoning goes that if we really believed Christ was our savior, we wouldn’t need anything else but belief in HIm. This is of course nonsense, and it shows very little understanding of what the sacraments and the Church are. This belief sees things like the sacraments as impediments to Christ, as things opposed to Christ. But that’s what I’ve heard from some Protestants. On the other hand, I’ve had some Protestant (pentecostal) co-workers tell me that I am saved because I believe in Jesus and I don’t have to worry about sinning. There’s a wide variety of belief in protestantism.
[/quote]

That cuts right to my point. If we accept Jesus’ offer of salvation, why would our sacraments detract from that? In other words, why would a lifetime of sacramental living damn me, if a single statement of faith (“I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior”) uttered when I was 16 save me?


#7

[quote=Cherub]When the orchestrators of the Protestant reformation decided to “protest” or break away from the Church, they needed an angle to make this take root. The idea of self-interpretation of sacred scripture allowed them to read and point to passages, take them out of context, and use them to make it seem as though the Catholic Church practiced idolatry, was given to “vain repetition” in prayer, and was superstitious.

What Martin Luther began as a genuine desire to reform certain things that had gone wrong with the Church at his time (such as the corruption of some local representatives of the Church, and the use of money to gain political favor and buy indulgences, etc…) was twisted into something that was never launched as a strictly theological protest – yet we all see now what that devolved into.

Now, many Protestants find their very identity in their non-Catholicism, and staunchly refuse to examine what we do indeed believe, or to accept that it is very nearly what they also believe. They rob themselves of the fullness of truth by setting themselves apart from the Church and her traditions. Very few Protestants actually know what it is they are “protesting” in being Protestant, because we now have 8 or 9 generations of them who have never been taught the history of the Church or of the movement which caused them to break away. All they know is “Protestant Good. Catholic Bad.”
[/quote]

Thank you. It seems a bit ludricuous if Protestants define themselves by what they are not when they truly do not know what they are “protesting” against.


#8

[size=6]THE FIVE BASIC DOCTRINES
Compiled and written by Sandy Simpson, 1999
Sources: Deception In The Church web page, Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (CARM),
Biblical Studies Foundation (Bible.Org)
All references NIV unless otherwise indicated. [/size]

If what you believe differs from what the Word of God says, you are in error in your doctrine. There is no person alive today who does not hold to doctrines. They may pretend to be free of doctrine and just “feeling” their way around the world, but they hold to doctrines just as tightly as you and I do. They just don’t realized how much they have been deceived by the enemy, by others, and by allowing themselves to be deceived.

THE FIVE BASIC DOCTRINES

**1. The Trinity: **God is one “What” and three “Whos” with each “Who” possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

**2. The Person of Jesus Christ: **Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

**3. The Second Coming: **Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

**4. Salvation: **It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. **5. The Scripture: **It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

[quote=enanneman]That cuts right to my point. If we accept Jesus’ offer of salvation, why would our sacraments detract from that? In other words, why would a lifetime of sacramental living damn me, if a single statement of faith (“I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior”) uttered when I was 16 save me?
[/quote]


#9

This a Protestant view of what you need to believe. This is a small snipet from Sandy’s webpage. All we can do is pray, that the Holy Spirit opens their eyes and ears to see what Jesus commanded. John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

[quote=SherryLynn9][size=6]THE FIVE BASIC DOCTRINES[/size]
Compiled and written by Sandy Simpson, 1999
Sources: Deception In The Church web page, Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (CARM),
Biblical Studies Foundation (Bible.Org)
All references NIV unless otherwise indicated.

If what you believe differs from what the Word of God says, you are in error in your doctrine. There is no person alive today who does not hold to doctrines. They may pretend to be free of doctrine and just “feeling” their way around the world, but they hold to doctrines just as tightly as you and I do. They just don’t realized how much they have been deceived by the enemy, by others, and by allowing themselves to be deceived.

THE FIVE BASIC DOCTRINES

**1. The Trinity: **God is one “What” and three “Whos” with each “Who” possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.
**2. The Person of Jesus Christ: **Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.
**3. The Second Coming: **Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.
**4. Salvation: **It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
**5. The Scripture: **It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.
[/quote]


#10

These are the greatest contradictions of Protestant belief:

  1. They say that we are saved by “faith alone”, but they say an infant should not be baptized because they are already saved. How can they be saved if they have no “faith”?

  2. They don’t believe in the doctrine of Immaculate conception because Mary, according to them, is not sinless. Therefore, this bolster the doctrine of original sin that infants also have the stain of original sin.

Since “all have sinned”, how can infants be saved?–the answer is–thru baptism. Therefore, that doctrine of “sola fide” is a big joke.

Pio


#11

Because they don’t believe that we actually have/had at any time a personal relationship with Christ. They believe that there is no way a Roman Catholic can have heard and understood the Good News while in the Roman Catholic Church.


#12

[quote=hlgomez]These are the greatest contradictions of Protestant belief:

  1. They say that we are saved by “faith alone”, but they say an infant should not be baptized because they are already saved. How can they be saved if they have no “faith”?

  2. They don’t believe in the doctrine of Immaculate conception because Mary, according to them, is not sinless. Therefore, this bolster the doctrine of original sin that infants also have the stain of original sin.

Since “all have sinned”, how can infants be saved?–the answer is–thru baptism. Therefore, that doctrine of “sola fide” is a big joke.

Pio
[/quote]

I guess my question is that if all I need is faith, to their eyes, isn’t everything else is icing on the cake? If all I need is a personal relationship with Christ, and, in addition to that, I celebrate the majority of the seven sacraments and have a thousand other beliefs, isn’t that personal relationship enough? Why am I damned for sacraments and the thousand other beliefs?


#13

[quote=MariaG]Because they don’t believe that we actually have/had at any time a personal relationship with Christ. They believe that there is no way a Roman Catholic can have heard and understood the Good News while in the Roman Catholic Church.
[/quote]

That’s what I don’t get. Luther believed (I think–this is from memory) that he could commit 10,000 acts of adultery and still be saved because of his faith. If I have the same faith of salvation through Christ (and, it naturally flows, his Church), why am I damned? If the extra beliefs the Church teaches are incorrect, surely my core faith of salvation through Christ will allow me to receive forgiveness for these extra beliefs.


#14

[quote=MariaG]Because they don’t believe that we actually have/had at any time a personal relationship with Christ. They believe that there is no way a Roman Catholic can have heard and understood the Good News while in the Roman Catholic Church.
[/quote]

MariaG, you will be greatly relieved to know that my Fundamentalist/Protestant neighbor has declared that there actually are SOME Catholics who can be saved. I believe her softening on this point is a direct result of my posing the question: “Where do Evangelicals [note: I did not use the word “fundamentalists”] get the idea that Catholics do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? That’s the most astonishing thing I ever heard!”


#15

[quote=mercygate]MariaG, you will be greatly relieved to know that my Fundamentalist/Protestant neighbor has declared that there actually are SOME Catholics who can be saved. I believe her softening on this point is a direct result of my posing the question: “Where do Evangelicals [note: I did not use the word “fundamentalists”] get the idea that Catholics do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? That’s the most astonishing thing I ever heard!”
[/quote]

Saints be praised! :wink:


#16

That’s what I don’t get. Luther believed (I think–this is from memory) that he could commit 10,000 acts of adultery and still be saved because of his faith. If I have the same faith of salvation through Christ (and, it naturally flows, his Church), why am I damned?

Because even the demons believe that Jesus is the Christ.

Pio


#17

[quote=enanneman]Saints be praised! :wink:
[/quote]

Yes. I’m going to write to His Holiness today to give him the good news!


#18

[quote=enanneman]I guess my question is that if all I need is faith, to their eyes, isn’t everything else is icing on the cake? If all I need is a personal relationship with Christ, and, in addition to that, I celebrate the majority of the seven sacraments and have a thousand other beliefs, isn’t that personal relationship enough? Why am I damned for sacraments and the thousand other beliefs?
[/quote]

Because they are “vain traditions of men” designed as barriers between good people and God, and structured to keep you under the thumb of a predatory hierarchy which keeps the people in bondage, like aphids being milked by ants on a rosebush. My, my, you ARE naive. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry. Couldn’t resist. I’ll post no more facetious posts on this serious thread.


#19

[quote=hlgomez]These are the greatest contradictions of Protestant belief:

  1. They say that we are saved by “faith alone”, but they say an infant should not be baptized because they are already saved. How can they be saved if they have no “faith”?

  2. They don’t believe in the doctrine of Immaculate conception because Mary, according to them, is not sinless. Therefore, this bolster the doctrine of original sin that infants also have the stain of original sin.

Since “all have sinned”, how can infants be saved?–the answer is–thru baptism. Therefore, that doctrine of “sola fide” is a big joke.

Pio
[/quote]

This is the way I remember being taught about infant salvation:
IF the child’s parents were saved the child was saved by the parents’ salvation until the infant/child reached the age of accountability and there was no need of baptism until the child reached that age. I don’t remember the scripture reference, but it was from Exodus (maybe) when the children of Israel had to wander the wilderness for 40 years until everyone over the age of 20 or 25(I don’t remember) had died due to their refusal to trust God and enter the Promised Land. I found a similiar scripture in Deuteronomy, chapter 1:34 "And the LORD heard the sound of your words, and was angry, and took an oath, saying,… 39"Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. 40But as for you, turn and take your journey into the wilderness by the Way of the Red Sea.’

This isn’t the scripture I was looking for, but this is the basis of that teaching.


#20

[quote=mercygate]Because they are “vain traditions of men” designed as barriers between good people and God, and structured to keep you under the thumb of a predatory hierarchy which keeps the people in bondage, like aphids being milked by ants on a rosebush. My, my, you ARE naive. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry. Couldn’t resist. I’ll post no more facetious posts on this serious thread.
[/quote]

But all sins are barriers between good people and God, and Jesus forgives all sins if you believe in him and accept him as your personal Lord and Savior. Surely if he forgives 10,000 acts of adultery as long as you have faith (as indicated by Luther), he’ll forgive my “vain traditions of men,” right?

I appreciate your tongue-in-cheek humor! :slight_smile:


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