Doing causes faith???


#1

I first placed this in the Scripture section, but I have not received any help.

I have struggled with many little questions and answers, and answers and questions.

Exodus 24: 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, "We will do everything the LORD has said; we will obey."

Rabbi Bonder says that this is saying, "do and then believe."

Is this one of the traditional Jewish interpretations of this passage?

Thus I have run to see if this is accurate. If it is, then does it applies to faith without acts is dead? Let me invert it: "It is works that actually give rise to faith." Or, "It is doing or works that give life to faith"

Is this traditional Jewish thought? Have I understood Bonder?

Thanks!

Jim Baur 10-21-2012-5772


#2

I hope you get some good answers from the Jewish perspective on this.

For my own view - I think that there is some truth in it, but I would not put it that way.

Belief, or at least the openness to belief must precede... otherwise, "doing" is just being a "good person" without necessarily associating it with God.

That said, "doing" is the great builder of trust and faith as well at the result of said faith. It becomes a circle...that begins with grace.

Peace
James


#3

Live your way into right thinking.


#4

Well as someone who used to be Jewish I can say that actions are very important in Judiasm. Leviticus is full of rules on how to act. Moses proscribed how the Israelite's were supposed to act, at Passover the Jewish slaves in Egypt were protected by the action of marking their doorpost with the blood of a lamb. I do think that the theme of actions are tied to belief is one that is consistent with both Judaism and Christianity.


#5

There are many different ways different rabbis interpret this verse. One common interpretation is that we were so eager to accept the Torah that we said "Whatever it is that G-d wants, we will do. Even if we don't yet know all of the details, we will do what we can and learn as we go."

I don't know who Rabbi Bonder is, so I can't help you there, but there certainly is a connection between doing tangible acts and increased commitment.


#6

Truth IS about doing…not about believing.

One of my favorite Christian songs conveys that. Geoff Moore and the Distance sang a song called “Keeper of this Life”…I think…but the first line speaks to this topic.

"Big black book in her small fragile hands.

The words she read, I did not understand.

Between the “thees” and “thous” and the “verilys” my Grandma lived the Truth in front of me."


#7

The bible is full of this notion:

John 13:17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Luke 8:21 He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice."

Proverbs 19:16 He who obeys instructions guards his life, but he who is contemptuous of his ways will die.

As for myself, as I am a pride-filled man, so belief doesn't come easy.

I put one foot in front of the other and go to Church. When I find myself at the alter rail - I find our loving God waiting in love.


#8

thanks!!!

Any more help?


#9

[quote="Jim_Baur, post:8, topic:302666"]
thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any more help?

[/quote]

Unless we put flesh on the words of the Gospel, they are just words. It is meant to be lived, not just believed. I would say doing causes faith, but also that faith causes doing.


#10

[quote="JRKH, post:2, topic:302666"]
I hope you get some good answers from the Jewish perspective on this.

For my own view - I think that there is some truth in it, but I would not put it that way.

Belief, or at least the openness to belief must precede... otherwise, "doing" is just being a "good person" without necessarily associating it with God.

That said, "doing" is the great builder of trust and faith as well at the result of said faith. It becomes a circle...that begins with grace.

Peace
James

[/quote]

I concur, at least from a personal experience.

One has to believe or at least open to it. That in itself is faith, maybe a very little faith but faith nevertheless. Looking at what Jesus says (about faith) in the scripture, all it takes perhaps for all of us ;) is just a little faith.

There are things in the scripture that I could never be sure but open to it anyway and do it. Probably that is true with many of us today and why we are still here - the grace of God falls upon us precisely on us being open to that belief and not totally rejecting it outright.


#11

Perhaps the solution is that love does come first, in a cardinal and not an ordinal sense.

We fall in love with God’s beauty, and like a child, listen to our parents. It is the doing or actions of love that give us the courage to believe God.

Thanks!

I said perhaps trying to indicate that this is an possible solution.


#12

Because He loves us, we get all of the answers first--He loves me; He gives me faith; He give me trust of Him; He gives me sobriety; He gives me humility; and He gives me chastity.

He actually gives me the Gifts, Fruits and Beatitudes (happiness).


#13

[quote="Jim_Baur, post:1, topic:302666"]

Rabbi Bonder says that this is saying, "do and then believe."
Thanks!
Jim Baur 10-21-2012-5772

[/quote]

Jim, nothing personal but I'm always puzzled how christians can ignore works as essential.
(sorry, this is not a jewish response)
We are commanded to Love God and our neighbor
Love is a verb, that requires doing
Obeying the commandments requires doing
It's itterative, as we express love our ability to love grows.
As we live the Gospel, the Holy Spirit leads us further into faith.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.