Don't worry about gun control. Worry about ammunition control

Now they want to outlaw ammo unless it’s “coded”:

ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm

“Saving lives one bullet at a time”. :rolleyes:

I just read about this in the NRA magazine. It’s just another way of outlawing guns and ammo. No wonder the gun and ammo business is booming right now. I think I’ll quickly buy another box.

The NRA is also against taggants in explosives. Things like dynamite are not for home protection and do not involve the second amendment. A taggant is a small identifer which would show where the explosive was made and bought. Such a law may have prevented the Unibomber.

But the NRA is agin’ it. If a gun has an identifier what is the problem with identifiers in ammunition or explosives? There’s no nuts like the gun nuts.

The gun-control crowd believes that self-defense is bad, if you use a gun to defend yourself. Just more of the culture of death, let the criminals have the guns (they won’t follow gun-control laws), so that law-abiding people will be defenseless against them.

Since this your second allegation along those lines, I think it is time for you to produce at least one quote by someone who favors gun control and states that self-defense is bad.

I’ll be waiting.

Wow, what a ‘stretch of the truth’ to spin this the way you did. Next I suppose you will claim that semi-auto rifles are the cause of crime or even a significant threat to society? :rolleyes:

So while you have dramatically over simplified TAGGANTS and grossly misstated their usefulness but those are NOT the discussion here. Nothing like changing topics to confuse people. But here is a webpage discussing the truth about taggants which debunks their value in stopping criminals like the Unibomber ( home.netcom.com/~wooffer/guns/taggants.html ) please start a new thread if you want to discuss taggants so we can actually continue with this one on topic.

So back on track with THIS topic.

The issue with the ammo bill above is multi-fold. [LIST]
*]it would require the destruction of all the ammo you currently own
*]it would DRAMATICALLY increase the price of ammo which would price many gun owners out of the market. Industry experts suggest the costs would rise 10x or more so a simply shotgun shell used for duck hunting would cost more than buying a whole duck at the store.
*]Would effectively stop practicing with weapons because the costs to practice would be too high. Lack of practice could lead to more firearm accidents.
*]Would effectively eliminate many shooting sports because the cost to practice/compete would prevent all but the rich from being able to afford it.[/LIST]The benefits are dubious at best, unproven, and the cost is extraordinary. The burden is levied heaviest on the poorest people and the detrimental affects would be astounding.

But don’t let those things get in your way when you insult us gun owners by calling us “nuts” and suggesting that we don’t use common sense. It is clear what your points are and clear that you are not well versed in gun control but simply spew the mantra as if were baby formula.

I happen to be a gun owner and some proponents of firearms are charitably called ‘nuts’. The NRA’s position on taggants is not well known but I have described the situation accurately. And taggants are a resource to solve terroristic crimes. Why not use them? Because the NRA has legislators cowed.

I do not believe that changes in the laws as to ammunition would make it too expensive to use for practice. That allegation sounds like more NRA panic peddling to me. Trouble! Right here in River City!

Yes, you do claim to be a gun owner. I am still insulted when you refer to gun owners as nuts in an insulting manner, which is EXACTLY how your phrase it and how you apply it.

**Actually no. ** Please research taggants and you will understand that they are NOT the super crime fighting tool that you believe them to be. To listen to you they are the magic bullet of crime forensics. They are far from it.

Then you simply need to do a little* (not even very much) *bit of research. The issue is actually near catostrophic in the affect it will have on the cost of ammunition that we *(at least those of us who practice) *use. You may not believe it, but as it is written it is what I portrayed it to be.

Well, that’s simple enough. Obviously not every gun owner is a nut. But when you listen to the gotterdamerung spewings of some of them as to gun control, and as to Obama on gun control, they are charitably characterized as “nuts”. The NRA exploits these folks and gets them charged up. Don’t take it personal.

I never said they are the be all and end all. But they are a valuable crime fighting tool which the NRA opposes. And they have nothing to do with hunting, self-defense or the second amendment. Do they?

Yes, you and I have what are called ‘different opinions’.

Here are the proposals in the “ammo coding” bill.

  1. Ammunition manufacturers would be required to imprint a secret code on cartridge casings so that the purchaser of the ammunition could be identified. The coding costs money, the consumer pays for this, thus the price of bullets go up.

  2. When you purchase ammunition, that secret code would be registered to your name. Registration will cost money, the consumer pays for this, thus the price of the bullets go up.

  3. All your ammunition purchases would be registered.

  4. You would be responsible for all eternity for ammunition registered to you. So if one of your shell cases is discarded or lost while hunting and late found by a criminal, or otherwise ends up in criminal hands, it could be deposited at a crime scene thereby ‘placing’ you at a crime you did not commit.

  5. It would be in your best interest to destroy all expended ammunition casings because an unaccounted for empty casing could be used to frame you for a crime you did not commit.

  6. People would be required to forfeit all personally owned non-“encoded” ammunition. After a certain date, it would be illegal to possess non-“encoded” ammunition. Consequently you would have to buy new ammo. This will cost money, those who can least afford it are then hit the hardest by this legislation.

  7. Reloading would be banned. Most active Trap, Skeet and Sporting Clays shooters reload their own shotgun shells to save money this bill directly affects their ability to afford their sport. A typical Trap Shooter can easily shoot 500 rounds each and every week. The brass portion of the hull would have to be encoded, but there is no way to encode the shot pellets so coding of shot shells is just silly.

  8. Reloading would be banned, part 2. Competitive 3-Gun, Practical Pistol, Cowboy Action and other sport shooters reload their own brass cases to save money this bill directly affects their ability to afford their sport. A typical competitive shooter can easily shoot 1000 rounds each and every week.

  9. Taxes and increased manufacturing costs would raise the price of a box of .45 ammo, currently about $20 to about $100 or more.

  10. In addition to the indirect costs, a tax of five cents a round would be imposed on private citizens, not only upon initial sale, but every time the ammunition changes hands thereafter. But just on initial sale the cost of a box of .45 ammo would increase over 10% just because of this 5-cents a bullet tax.

  11. Gun ownership would become too costly for most people.

The “encoded ammunition” or “serialized ammunition” bills would require ammunition manufacturers to engrave a serial number on the base of the bullet and the inside of the cartridge casing of each round of ammunition for popular sporting caliber center-fire rifles, all center-fire pistols, all .22 rimfire rifles and pistols, and all 12 gauge shotguns.

People would be required to separately register every box of “encoded ammunition” and the registration would be supplied to the police. Each box of ammunition would have a unique serial number, thus a separate registration. Gun owners would have to maintain records if they sell ammunition to anyone, including family members or friends. The cost of ammunition would soar, for police and private citizens alike. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturing Institute estimates it would take three weeks to produce ammunition currently produced in a single day.

And to what benefit in terms of fighting crime? Criminals already steal guns and would certainly steal ammunition. Burglaries would be encouraged. Criminals could also use shotguns, which fire pellets too small to encode, and simply not eject the cases at the crime scene since shotshell are much more lethal it is likely that killings will increase. Criminals could also collect ammunition cases from shooting ranges, and reload them with molten lead bullets made without serial numbers.

Yup. Make it hard for poor people to defend themselves. Also make it hard for anyone to defend themselves period.

Just trust the government to defend us. Don’t worry, the cops will get there soon enough after they finish writing those parking tickets, we do have a budget gap to fill.

usavsus.info/US-AmmoRegistr.htm:mad:

Well there you go posting FACTS. Don’t you realize by now that the folks who support these laws don’t like facts? In fact I’m surprised that someone hasn’t posted saying that those are only your ‘opinions’ and he doesn’t believe them. :wink:

Yup, the bill is pretty clear. Its been circulating through several states, as your link to Tennessee shows. Most states have set it aside. The real danger, however is the federal proposal.

Well meaning, but totally ignorant people will support bills like this because bills like this seem like good ideas . . . until you see what all the unintended consequences really are with this type of bill. Then these bills, in fact, look like the boondogles that they really are.

“And now in other news, a large cargo plane crashed along a remote stretch of the Arizona border today, Service Corps officials said. Inside were found more than eight tons of illegal ammunition, fitting hundreds of different type of weapon. ‘None of this ammunition is tagged or marked in any way,’ said Cranston McNutt, Southwest Sector Security Chief of the Federal Service Corps. ‘As such, it is in violation of US law, and it entered the country illegally.’ All seven people aboard the aircraft were killed in the crash, including three Americans; the remainder are believed to be Colombian citizens. This is the sixth crash of an aircraft smuggling ammunition into the United States in the last two years; Service Corps spokesmen said, showing evidence of a growing and serious problem. Ammunition smuggling has reached epidemic proportions since the Tagged Ammunition Act was signed into law by President Obama in February 2009, with the smugglers using aircraft, boats, rafts, vehicles, and other means to bring ammunition into the country.”

And this will be another victory for Obama, Shumer, Brady and all the rest of the anti-self defence and anti hunting groups. After this, they’ll start working on slingshots and bows and arrows.

I think the ammunition control has already started.

I went to my local Wal-Mart (Wally World) and a box of .40, .45 or 9mm was not to be found. The supply of rifle cartridges of various favorite calibers are also becoming rather slim.

The gentleman behind the counter gave a polite explanation of how the rush to purchase ammo and rifles before the election has caused a shortage that Remington and Winchester had not anticipated.

Buy now while the supply last ! :thumbsup:

What about regular semi-automatic pistols and rifles? Bolt actions? Lever actions?

Do you think the effect on police would kill the efforts to code ammo? I hope it does.

This bill has nothing to do with guns. It only affects the ammunition the guns use. It appears to affect ammunition for all types of guns. Handguns and long arms alike.

Actually I would expect that there will be a change in the bill to ‘exempt’ police from this so that they will have access to lower cost ammo and we will pay outrageous prices.

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From the crime control standpoint, however, I would expect a violent new industry to bloom, one that involves smuggling of unmarked ammo into the US, right along the drug importation routes. But that is clearly just a logical hypothesis. There are also untold tens of thousands of ‘reloading’ machines in the hands of honest citizens today that would be rendered useless. Many will probably end up in criminal hands, these machines, which are typically owned by competitive and target shooters, allow you to make your own ammo. There is no way to control these things because there is now way to know who has them so if they get transferred to criminals then I’d guess, that just like moonshine and meth-labs, there will be cottage industries popping up in neighborhoods and back rooms that will make and sell unmarked ammo to anyone who wants it.

Obama can be expected to constantly attack the Second Amendment, which is bad news for me, big time. Shooting is the only hobby I can still pursue. I had to give up archery and the martial arts because of a bad shoulder. If I lose my guns (unforeseeable), my life will become even more boring that it already is, unfortunately.:mad:

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