Down syndrome and baptism


#1

As I have written here before, I have mentioned that my girlfriend of 2 yrs. is a SDA. We’re not engaged bc we have issues regarding religion. She of course bc of her faith does not believe in infant baptism bc they believe must confess God and accept him.

I have a sister ho has Down syndrome. Individuals who have downs will never have a right mindset for their age. The mind will be that of a 6 or 7 yr old. So I ask my girlfriend, lets say we Catholics are wrong about infant baptism, what is your church stance on baptism for individuals with Down syndrome or special needs. Jesus, god himself said, for you to enter my father’s kingdom you must be baptized, how will a kid with Down syndrome, or an individual with special needs be able to confess God.

She told me I believe these individuals are angels. I told her, w/ o a doubt they are, they are God’s angels in human flesh, but what about their baptism. Jesus Christ said, that we must get baptized in order to go to his fathers kingdom, w/o it, we couldn’t enjoy his kingdom. I pressed on that issue for 5 mins and she couldn’t answer it.

I told her look Hun, Peter says faith is passed from the parents to their household. That basically means that a parent can and should confess their infant’s faith.

What do you think, do you believe that these situations like mental illnesses invalidates were one must confess god to get baptized, just like some Protestant groups argue?


#2

My son has Down Syndrome. He has been baptized, made his first communion, goes to confession, and is being confirmed this spring.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

And..... they ain't angels:D


#3

[quote="triumphguy, post:2, topic:313955"]
My son has Down Syndrome. He has been baptized, made his first communion, goes to confession, and is being confirmed this spring.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

And..... they ain't angels:D

[/quote]

My sister has been baptized, gotten her first communion, and had her confirmation. The morale of the story with my girlfriend is that not everyone can confess God like protestants believe. Some bc of physical and mental problems cannot do that. Thats why the Church has always thought of infant baptism, and the Church Fathers even say thats how things were being done.


#4

I have a daughter with Down Syndrome. She is baptized, chrismated (that is confirmed) and has been receiving communion since she was an infant. While children with DS are in many ways angelic, they are definitely not angels. They are in need of the healing transformation that comes from the sacraments just like the rest us.

I would emphasize that the view your girlfriend holds tries to limit the power of God's grace. Can she truly say that God does not have the power to give his grace to an infant?

(By the way, what's an SDA?)


#5

[quote="Symeon, post:4, topic:313955"]
I have a daughter with Down Syndrome. She is baptized, chrismated (that is confirmed) and has been receiving communion since she was an infant. While children with DS are in many ways angelic, they are definitely not angels. They are in need of the healing transformation that comes from the sacraments just like the rest us.

I would emphasize that the view your girlfriend holds tries to limit the power of God's grace. Can she truly say that God does not have the power to give his grace to an infant?

(By the way, what's an SDA?)

[/quote]

That's exactly what I told her. Shes a seventh day adventist


#6

[quote="chero23, post:3, topic:313955"]
My sister has been baptized, gotten her first communion, and had her confirmation. The morale of the story with my girlfriend is that not everyone can confess God like protestants believe. Some bc of physical and mental problems cannot do that. Thats why the Church has always thought of infant baptism, and the Church Fathers even say thats how things were being done.

[/quote]

The thing is, the Church hasn't always thought of infant baptism. In the early church it was common for baptism to happen when one was an adult.

The main purpose of baptism is to wash away original sin. Contrary to popular belief, baptism isn't so much a big welcoming party as it is often displayed as.


#7

But if you look at the church fathers, they spoke of infant baptism as early as the yr 140 if im not mistaken


#8

[quote="Deo_Gratias42, post:6, topic:313955"]
The thing is, the Church hasn't always thought of infant baptism..

[/quote]

There are references to the baptism of infants as far back as St. Irenaeus in t the 2nd century. From the earliest centuries, the babies of Christian families were baptized. It's just not the case that the Church hasn't always thought of infant baptism.

[quote="Deo_Gratias42, post:6, topic:313955"]
In the early church it was common for baptism to happen when one was an adult.

[/quote]

Right, since a large proportion of new Christians were adult converts.

[quote="Deo_Gratias42, post:6, topic:313955"]
The main purpose of baptism is to wash away original sin. Contrary to popular belief, baptism isn't so much a big welcoming party as it is often displayed as.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#9

God Loves You (fullstop)


#10

Children with Down Syndrome can and should be baptized to remove original sin, and then catechized to the extent of their intellect, or what they can handle. It is wrong to say that all people with Downs have the intellect of a 6 or 7 year old - there are varying degrees of intelligence in Downs, just as in the "normal" population.

Be very careful with your SDA friend and think hard before considering Marriage. It is difficult to have a mixed Marriage with a faith that is close to the Catholic faith, but even more difficult to do so with someone who has views that if they are not anti- Catholic, border on it.

Prayers for you and your friend.


#11

[quote="triumphguy, post:2, topic:313955"]
My son has Down Syndrome. He has been baptized, made his first communion, goes to confession, and is being confirmed this spring.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

And..... they ain't angels:D

[/quote]

I have a relative with Down Syndrome who was also baptized as an infant. Right - they are not "angels," but simply persons like us who have a different developmental pattern than most other people.

Baptism is definitely appropriate for people in this situation. Tell your Protestant friend to study some early Church history. ;):p


#12

[quote="chero23, post:7, topic:313955"]
But if you look at the church fathers, they spoke of infant baptism as early as the yr 140 if im not mistaken

[/quote]

Earlier. Look at Acts 16...

Acts 16:14-15
One of them, a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth, from the city of Thyatira, a worshiper of God,* listened, and the Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what Paul was saying.
After she and her household had been baptized, she offered us an invitation, “If you consider me a believer in the Lord, come and stay at my home,” and she prevailed on us.

Acts 16:30-34
Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you and your household will be saved.”
So they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to everyone in his house.
He took them in at that hour of the night and bathed their wounds; then he and all his family were baptized at once.
He brought them up into his house and provided a meal and with his household rejoiced at having come to faith in God.


#13

Children with down syndrome can and should receive baptism, confession, communion, and confirmation. An exception may be made for individuals whose condition is so severe that they're incapable of understanding the significance of the sacrament. Nonetheless, he or she should still be baptized.

One of the holiest people I ever met was an an adult man with down syndrome. He had the sweetest intuitive understanding of God and a child's pure faith. It would have been a terrible sin to deny him the sacraments. His father had to fight like a lion against the nun who didn't want him in her confirmation class. She said he "would be an embarrassment to the parish befor ehte bishop". This was 45 years ago. His Dad shut her up real quick.


#14

[quote="Leon_Bloy, post:11, topic:313955"]
I have a relative with Down Syndrome who was also baptized as an infant. Right - they are not "angels," but simply persons like us who have a different developmental pattern than most other people.

Baptism is definitely appropriate for people in this situation. Tell your Protestant friend to study some early Church history. ;):p

[/quote]

I have talked to her and told her look for 400 yrs. early Christians didn't have the bible as we do today. I told her those yrs everything was passed down orally just like Paul said

I have told her to look at the church fathers was, their not in the bible, I told her your right their not but neither is Ellen g. White or miller, and your church bases a lot on their writings.

I told her, who would you rather believe, somebody who was thought directly by the apostles, or by somebody who self interpreted the bible 1800 yrs after Jesus resurrection.


#15

[quote="Regi, post:10, topic:313955"]
Children with Down Syndrome can and should be baptized to remove original sin, and then catechized to the extent of their intellect, or what they can handle. It is wrong to say that all people with Downs have the intellect of a 6 or 7 year old - there are varying degrees of intelligence in Downs, just as in the "normal" population.

Be very careful with your SDA friend and think hard before considering Marriage. It is difficult to have a mixed Marriage with a faith that is close to the Catholic faith, but even more difficult to do so with someone who has views that if they are not anti- Catholic, border on it.

Prayers for you and your friend.

[/quote]

Trust me no ring will go on her ring until we get the religion solved. I have spoken to my priest about my situation and I tell him, it's tough, I love the girl, but she has to understand that I know my faith, I believe in it, and I will fight for it.


#16

That's a tough one ( issue you present ) and others are correct in telling you to be on your guard....
...The SDA's claim they believe in the Trinity yet at the same time.
...Will affirm Christ was "mutable" and could have lost His salvation.
...As in: God would have eternally annihlated Christ "if" He had sinned.

They also believe that prior to the Incarnation Christ existed in heaven as Michael the Archangel...
...They will also claim that Lucifer, prior to his rebellion was also an "Archangel".
...And that there were many other Archangels.

The rubrics of their religion require them to believe that Ellen White ( person who wrote many of their books )....
...Is some type of "super prophet" who is the final word on what the Bible means.
...They are sort of a 'hi tech' religion that is deep into the medical field.

The SDA's operate 1st class hospitals and I believe did the first ape heart transplant...
...It's just that there beliefs whereas religion are concerned are all messed up.
...If you show her that Christ was never mutable she will take you more serious about baptism.

This is the serious chink in SDA armor - they have no ability to defend against it except to appeal to Ellen White....
...Claim she was a prophet and try to change the subject to their belief that death separates a believer from Christ.

The SDA's are also huge into abortion rights...
...And perform them with velocity at their medical facilities.

lifesitenews.com/news/seventh-day-adventist-university-names-new-economics-centre-after-abortioni


#17

[quote="chero23, post:5, topic:313955"]
That's exactly what I told her. Shes a seventh day adventist

[/quote]

Have the child baptized on the QT if the mother won't go along with it.


#18

both of those are not outside the realm of Catholic Theology. We know of 4 named archangels Michael, Uriel, Gabriel and (I forget the other one)…

Certain books of jewish scripture were excluded from the septuagint… A couple of them note 7 archangels (one per choir of Angels), plus Lucifer, and note that demons and devils are the angels who rejected God. This was and is a part of Catholic theology, as well, albeit one that is not part of the modern catechesis. (They also talk of the Nephilim - children of Angels and men.)

Some elements of these are part of Received Tradition.
Likewise, the Protoevangelion and the Nativity of Mary are not scripture, but their contents are largely part of received tradition.


#19

[quote="Aramis, post:18, topic:313955"]
both of those are not outside the realm of Catholic Theology. We know of 4 named archangels Michael, Uriel, Gabriel and (I forget the other one)...

Certain books of jewish scripture were excluded from the septuagint... A couple of them note 7 archangels (one per choir of Angels), plus Lucifer, and note that demons and devils are the angels who rejected God. This was and is a part of Catholic theology, as well, albeit one that is not part of the modern catechesis. (They also talk of the Nephilim - children of Angels and men.)

Some elements of these are part of Received Tradition.
Likewise, the Protoevangelion and the Nativity of Mary are not scripture, but their contents are largely part of received tradition.

[/quote]

I said what I did in the context of the SDA's claiming that the pre-Incarnated Christ......
...Was 'also' an Archangel.
...Our Theology is going the other direction from that affirmation.


#20

[quote="Aramis, post:18, topic:313955"]
both of those are not outside the realm of Catholic Theology. We know of 4 named archangels Michael, Uriel, Gabriel and (I forget the other one)...

Certain books of jewish scripture were excluded from the septuagint... A couple of them note 7 archangels (one per choir of Angels), plus Lucifer, and note that demons and devils are the angels who rejected God. This was and is a part of Catholic theology, as well, albeit one that is not part of the modern catechesis. (They also talk of the Nephilim - children of Angels and men.)

Some elements of these are part of Received Tradition.
Likewise, the Protoevangelion and the Nativity of Mary are not scripture, but their contents are largely part of received tradition.

[/quote]

Raphael, the Archangel.


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