Drinking of blood/pagan practice?


#1

Hi again,
I need a bit of help again. My bible christian friend is now saying that the drinking of blood was condemned in the OT and NT, so therefore why would Christ command us to drink His blood. I’m not sure I can get into the theology of the accidents vs. the substance, but I’ll take anything! She is also saying, which I know is true, that consuming flesh and blood are pagan and Satanic rituals. I’d like to argue that they are “bastardizations” of the Truth, but I’m not sure that’ll fly.
Thanks again,
Nicole


#2

**That is ridiculous. The Old Testament talk about not drinking blood is Mosaic Law, which is no longer binding on us, it was temporary. Also, the apostles drank from the cup, so are they pagan too? Jesus himself instituted it, so is he pagan? **

Also read the following:

51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." 52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” -John 6:51-58

Clearly here he is talking about the Holy Eucharist and how it is important for us to partake in it.


#3

Hello

The drinking of the Blood of Christ is when it is consecrated during mass in the Altar and not drinking of human blood which is pagan practice.

God Bless
Saint Andrew.


#4

would it be accurate to compare this condemnation of the pagan drinking of blood vs. drinking the True Blood of the Lamb to the command to make no graven images, yet then the building of the Ark of the Covenant commences? It only pertains to worship of a pagan god, but of the One, True God it is, obviously, not applicable.


#5

I think it would be helpful to look at the passages where the injunction against consuming blood is laid down.

In Leviticus, the Lord tells Moses to say to the Israelites, " 'Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, “You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.” (Lev 17:13-14).

In Deuteronomy again it says, “But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat. You must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground like water. Do not eat it, so that it may go well with you and your children after you, because you will be doing what is right in the eyes of the LORD.” (Dt 12:23-25)

In both books, the key is that the blood is the life, which belongs to God. People are allowed to kill animals and eat their flesh, but they may not consume their “life” which is the blood. That must be returned to God.

Now, what would it mean when Jesus, as in the passage Roman_Army quoted from John, specifically tells his followers that they are to consume BOTH his flesh AND his blood? To me it indicates the totality of his sacrifice. He is offering not just his flesh for the world, but also his life (blood). Tell your friend that observant Jews cannot consume blood because it belongs to God, but Jesus can freely offer his own blood, because he IS God!

They had a problem with this back then as well, which is why John says “On hearing it, many of his disciples said, ‘This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?’” and “From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.” (John 6:60,66)

–Bill

P.S. The quotes above are from the Protestant NIV, since your friend may not trust a Catholic translation.


#6

[quote=heisey8]Hi again,
I need a bit of help again. My bible christian friend is now saying that the drinking of blood was condemned in the OT and NT, so therefore why would Christ command us to drink His blood.
[/quote]

Yes why did He. So many turned and followed Him no more because it was a ‘hard saying’. He then asked his Apostles, ‘will you also leave?’ For your friend maybe it is a ‘hard saying’ and he will also turn away.

Will you also leave?

Pax Christi.


#7

[quote=Roman_Army]That is ridiculous. The Old Testament talk about not drinking blood is Mosaic Law, which is no longer binding on us, it was temporary.
[/quote]

Acts 15:20: *but that we write to them that they **abstain …**from blood. *

Acts 15:29: *that you **abstain…**from blood…you will do well. *

Oops! It is still binding. The above statements were made after Christ’s symbolic statements in the Gospels, and after his crucifixion, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension.


#8

[quote=sonseeker]Oops! It is still binding. The above statements were made after Christ’s symbolic statements in the Gospels, and after his crucifixion, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension.
[/quote]

1 Cor 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. 7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.

OH NO! St. Paul is a heretic!

Maybe you should quit “proof texting”, Bill.

God bless,
RyanL


#9

Hi heisey8,

You should be offering the following passages of scripture in support of our beliefs. St. Paul clearly says that the cup that we share is communion in the blood of Christ in 1st Corinthians 10:16

16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?

Also offer the last supper passages in Matt 26:26-28, Mark 14:22-24, and luke 22:17-20. focus upon the direct command of Our Lord here:

27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

Here is a good post that wil give you a good presentation of the NT case for the Eucharist. I especially urge you to consider and point out the fact that if the communion is simply symbolic that that would make St. Paul crazy since he states that taking it while in grave sin makes one guilty of the body and blood of the Lord, which would be patently impossible if the early church had thought it a mere symbol. since abuse of a symbol cannot confer blood guilt of the person that it’s a symbol of.

Pax tecum,


#10

[quote=RyanL]OH NO! St. Paul is a heretic!

Maybe you should quit “proof texting”, Bill.

God bless,
RyanL
[/quote]

No, Scripture contradicts itself!

The command not to imbibe blood was given to Noah, before there was an Israelitish people.

Where in the passage that you cite does Paul say anything about blood? He doesn’t; he is talking about "the eating of things sacrificed to idols.

Does he go on to contradict what was in Acts regarding fornication, and things strangled?


#11

[quote=sonseeker]No, Scripture contradicts itself!

The command not to imbibe blood was given to Noah, before there was an Israelitish people.

Where in the passage that you cite does Paul say anything about blood? He doesn’t; he is talking about "the eating of things sacrificed to idols.

Does he go on to contradict what was in Acts regarding fornication, and things strangled?
[/quote]

Perhaps someone with an understanding of the Greek language may be able to answer this question more directly, however I note that St. James’s command in Acts 15 is not specific to “imbibing blood,” as Sonseeker would have us believe. The command is to “abstain” from blood. St. James commands us to “abstain” from fornication, and no one would interpret this to mean that we are not “to drink” or “to eat” our fornication. Instead, we are to “abstain” from it. Likewise, the command is to “abstain” from blood, so I’m wondering if, pursuant to Sonseeker’s understanding, anyone who comes into contact with blood violates God’s commands. If so, every health professional and good samaritan is certainly in trouble. Patients needing blood transfusions are in trouble. Can parents wipe the wounds of their children’s sores? Can we stop along the roadway and help a motorcyclist who has been in an accident? It seems to me the focus ought to be on how exactly we are to abstain and reconcile that with Our Lord’s very clear command that we are to drink His blood!

Peace,
Fiat


#12

For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed.
John 6:56

**No metaphors here! :smiley: **


#13

[quote=Mot Juste]In Leviticus, the Lord tells Moses to say to the Israelites, " 'Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth, because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, “You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.” (Lev 17:13-14).

In Deuteronomy again it says, “But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat. You must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground like water. Do not eat it, so that it may go well with you and your children after you, because you will be doing what is right in the eyes of the LORD.” (Dt 12:23-25)

In both books, the key is that the blood is the life, which belongs to God. People are allowed to kill animals and eat their flesh, but they may not consume their “life” which is the blood. That must be returned to God.

Now, what would it mean when Jesus, as in the passage Roman_Army quoted from John, specifically tells his followers that they are to consume BOTH his flesh AND his blood? To me it indicates the totality of his sacrifice. He is offering not just his flesh for the world, but also his life (blood). Tell your friend that observant Jews cannot consume blood because it belongs to God, but Jesus can freely offer his own blood, because he IS God!
–Bill

[/quote]

Also, Bill, Jesus speaks elsewhere of desiring that we ‘remain in him and he in us.’ When we eat/drink the Body and Blood of Christ, we do not assimilate him, he assimilates us.

Jesus’ “blood of the new covenant” is not the blood or “life” of an animal that would degrade our human life if we partook of it; The blood of Christ is the blood of eternal Life. It is the “life” of God himself. This is the blood of the Sacrifice by which we are reconciled by Christ into the eternal life of God.


#14

You have to take into account what St. James is talking about. He is speaking about the fact that Gentiles (non Jews) had different customs from the Jews. These customs were offensive to new Jewish Christians - customs such as eating meat that still had blood in it (rare) and meat from strangled animals.

The Jews believed that blood is the container of life and belongs to God alone and therefore to eat blood of animals was abhorrent to them (based on the O.T. laws in Lev. 17:7-9.) So St. James is asking the Gentiles who were becoming Christians to abstain from doing this custom of theirs because it scandalized the Jewish Christians. Gentiles were pagans and they sacrificed food to pagan gods. The Jews were scandalized by this and therefore even though the Gentiles who had become Christians no longer sacrificed to gods, they were still eating animals that had not had the blood drained out of them. St. Paul makes it clear that these old dietary laws no longer matter (1 Corinthians 8:10) but because these habits were causing a problem for the Jewish Christians, St. James asked the Gentile Christians to refrain from doing this.

The blood that all of them drank was the blood of Christ - not an animal sacrificed to a pagan god. God offered His blood, which is eternal life - to partake of it was to live forever (John 6:54).


#15

Sonseeker:

Hmmm…

7 [/font]4 After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, “My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts. 10 Why, then, are you now putting God to the test by placing on the shoulders of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? 11 On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they.” 5 12 The whole assembly fell silent, and they listened while Paul and Barnabas described the signs and wonders God had worked among the Gentiles through them. 13 [/font]6 After they had fallen silent, James responded, “My brothers, listen to me. 14 Symeon 7 has described how God first concerned himself with acquiring from among the Gentiles a people for his name. 15 The words of the prophets agree with this, as is written: 16 ‘After this I shall return and rebuild the fallen hut of David; from its ruins I shall rebuild it and raise it up again, 17 so that the rest of humanity may seek out the Lord, even all the Gentiles on whom my name is invoked. Thus says the Lord who accomplishes these things, 18 known from of old.’ 19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood. 21 For Moses, for generations now, has had those who proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the synagogues every sabbath.” 22 Then the apostles and presbyters, in agreement with the whole church, decided to choose representatives and to send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. The ones chosen were Judas, who was called Barsabbas, and Silas, leaders among the brothers. 23 This is the letter delivered by them: “The apostles and the presbyters, your brothers, to the brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia of Gentile origin: greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some of our number (who went out) without any mandate from us have upset you with their teachings and disturbed your peace of mind, 25 we have with one accord decided to choose representatives and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 So we are sending Judas and Silas who will also convey this same message by word of mouth: 28 ‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, 29 namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’” - Acts 15:7-29

Again Peter emphasises on the primacy and infallibility of his office, in which his direct successor is the Pope. Also again the Apostles show that sola scriptura doesn’t work and doesn’t exist. Clearly here in Acts, it is said to avoid the meat and blood of sacrificed animals to the idols (such as ancient Greek Pagan Gods and Ancient Roman pagan Gods). People were still sacrificing animals to idols and it is wrong for Christians to partake of that, because Jesus is the only true sacrifice and we partake in his through the Eucharist in the nature of bread and wine.


#16

[quote=sonseeker]No, Scripture contradicts itself!

The command not to imbibe blood was given to Noah, before there was an Israelitish people.

Where in the passage that you cite does Paul say anything about blood? He doesn’t; he is talking about "the eating of things sacrificed to idols.

Does he go on to contradict what was in Acts regarding fornication, and things strangled?
[/quote]

**Exactly the point and the apostles in Acts were talking about the drinking of the blood (the full nature of animal blood) offered to Idols because if they do partake of that they are worshipping a false God. The Gentiles continued to do pagan practices while being Christians, just as today there are Christians believing in fortune telling, astrology, and so on. ****The Eucharist is the sacrifice of Jesus offered to God in the nature of Bread and Wine. **

55 “For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” -John 6:55-58


#17

[quote=Roman_Army]Sonseeker:

Hmmm…

Again Peter emphasises on the primacy and infallibility of his office, in which his direct successor is the Pope. Also again the Apostles show that sola scriptura doesn’t work and doesn’t exist. Clearly here in Acts, it is said to avoid the meat and blood of sacrificed animals to the idols (such as ancient Greek Pagan Gods and Ancient Roman pagan Gods). People were still sacrificing animals to idols and it is wrong for Christians to partake of that, because Jesus is the only true sacrifice and we partake in his through the Eucharist in the nature of bread and wine.
[/quote]

Roman Army

Hmmm…

You haven’t even read the passage. This has nothing to do with Peter’s primacy and infallibility; it is James who makes the decision, not Peter. Read the Bible!


#18

[quote=Sarah Jane]You have to take into account what St. James is talking about. He is speaking about the fact that Gentiles (non Jews) had different customs from the Jews. These customs were offensive to new Jewish Christians - customs such as eating meat that still had blood in it (rare) and meat from strangled animals.
[/quote]

Sarah Jane, the passage has nothing to do with gentile customs. In the first place, the thrust of the passage, if you read from the beginning of the chapter, is whether or not gentile believers should be required to be circumcised; the command of James to abstain from food for idols, blood, and fornication were supplemental to the command that it is not necessary for gentiles to be circumcised. Again, the folly of gentile circumcision is the main thrust of the passage.

[quote=Sarah Jane]The Jews believed that blood is the container of life and belongs to God alone and therefore to eat blood of animals was abhorrent to them (based on the O.T. laws in Lev. 17:7-9.)
[/quote]

While that is certainly true, the initial edict from God pertaining to the intake of blood by men is given to Noah in Gen 9:4. There were, at that time, no Levitical laws, nor were there any Jews.

[quote=Sarah Jane]So St. James is asking the Gentiles who were becoming Christians to abstain from doing this custom of theirs because it scandalized the Jewish Christians. Gentiles were pagans and they sacrificed food to pagan gods.
[/quote]

Sarah Jane, the Jews too, were guilty of sacrificing to pagan gods. That is the reason they suffered so much under God’s hand in the O.T. Sacrificing to pagan gods was not just a gentile custom. True, after the Babylonian captivity the Jews pretty much straightened up, but to attribute pagan practices only to gentiles is simply not true. And what about fornicating? Do you think that the Jews never did that?

St. Paul makes it clear that these old dietary laws no longer matter (1 Corinthians 8:10)Eating food sacrificed to idols was not a dietary restriction. Dietary restrictions had to do with types of animals which could or could not be eaten. In the 1 Cor 8 passage, Paul is abrogating the “eating of food sacrificed to idols” ONLY, with the caveat, that there are some whose consciences are violated by eating that food, and they should not be made to eat it, thereby violating their consciences. Paul nowhere nullifies the other of prohibitions issued by James in Acts 15; he does not say it is now alright to partake of blood; he does not say it is now alright to fornicate.

[quote=Sarah Jane]The blood that all of them drank was the blood of Christ - not an animal sacrificed to a pagan god. God offered His blood, which is eternal life - to partake of it was to live forever (John
[/quote]

6:54).They drank wine (Mt 26:26-29; Mk 14:25; Lk 22:18.)


#19

[quote=sonseeker]Roman Army

Hmmm…

You haven’t even read the passage. This has nothing to do with Peter’s primacy and infallibility; it is James who makes the decision, not Peter. Read the Bible!
[/quote]

**I did not say that Peter made the final decision. Just showing how Peter has stated again how he is Prime and Infallible. :wink: **


#20

[quote=Fiat]The command is to “abstain” from blood.
[/quote]

What does abstain from blood mean to you, Fiat?

[quote=Fiat]St. James commands us to “abstain” from fornication
[/quote]

What does abstain from fornication mean to you, Fiat?

[quote=Fiat]and no one would interpret this to mean that we are not “to drink” or “to eat” our fornication. Instead, we are to “abstain” from it.
[/quote]

The word translated “abstain,” is from the Greek apeco. It means to “keep away from.” In English, abstain means to abstain. Why do you need to know Greek to understand that?

[quote=Fiat]It seems to me the focus ought to be on how exactly we are to abstain and reconcile that with Our Lord’s very clear command that we are to drink His blood!
[/quote]

It is wine; Christ Himself called it, “fruit of the vine.” (Mt 26:26-29; Mk 14:25; Lk 22:18)


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