dungeons and dragons immoral

I recently found out the popular role-playing game Dungeons and Dragons is considered immoral by many churches. At first I thought this was ridiculous, however after doing some investigating I am begining to see why.

Dungeons and Dragons, commonly abreviated DnD, was a game when I was a kid that stimulated my imagination, yet I only had a chance to play it only a couple times as a kid; I was too shy and timid to make friends with any of my classmates.

Mustering up some courage to become more outgoing, I decided after 15 years to start playing DnD again. Every tuesday I play at a hobby shop with a mixture of kids and adults. Although I enjoy DnD, I feel immature at my my age playing a kid’s game and I still am painfully shy.

While researching the origons of Dungeons and Dragons online I came across occult links to the games. At first I found this was absurd and many websites poked fun of the Catholic’s Church stance on the game, however after a couple of months of playing DnD I am begining to see the game’s dark side.

What is most disturbing is I am playing the game with a group of kids and the adults in the game. The adults are their parents who are encourging their kids to do vile acts. I know everyone is trying to have some fun, but I cannot believe some of the things that are coming out of these kids mouths.

Every player has a god they worship in their game and the player has to make sacrifices to their chosen god. A 14-year old boy in the game worships his god by killing innocent people, eating their flesh and then giving an offering to his god. These parents, who have been playing the game for as long as 25 years, are encourging their kids to engage in theft, murder, rape, and dishonnesty. The graphic and brutely savage language these kids use to commit these acts in the game are so appalling.

Everything the church has been saying about satanic symbols in the game is true. The parents and kids wear many satanic symbols such as pentagrams, inverted crosses, dragons, devils, demons, and many sarcastic anti-god shirts. One girl who plays in the game frequently wears a t-shirt with an inverted pentagram encised in a circle, inverted cross earings, and wears an opal ring. These kids are also into heavy metal, I am not saying all heavy metal is bad, but Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne, and Creed definitely are.

The dice in the game symbolize witchcraft in my opinion. One day I decided to research the origons of role-playing dice. They originated in mystic practices! Plato has an intresting theory about what he called platonic solids. He theorized a 20-sided platonic solid represented water, a 10 sided shape represent fire, a 4-sided dice represented earth, and a 100 sides shape represented air. These are all the shapes of dice used in Dungeons and Dragons. If you put these all together fire, earth, air, water, and the player has a human spirit. That makes up all the components to cast spells!

Recent version of the games have tried to eliminate some of these satanic symbols in the game, however the origional 1st edition Advanced Dungeons and dragons game has many satanic symbols in it. I looked through both the players manual and the dungeon masters guide and found many disturbing pictures. The dragon’s head can symbolize the 5 points of the inverted pentagram. Although some may percieve the dragon to be an inocent symbol, it is not in this game. I have looked at occult symbols, in particular the dragon. A frequent symbol is two dragons embracing an inverted sword. The dragon tails make a fiqure 8. This exact same symbol can be found in both books. The dragons in these books are drawn standing ontop of human skulls.

The books have gruesome pictures of zombies, skeletons, and dragons commiting vile acts. This isn’t kids stuff some of these pictures look very satanic to me in my opinion. Later editions of Dungeons and Dragons did not have the pictures that were in the first edition.

Ironically my faith in god has grown stronger in the past couple months while playing the game. I have had nightmares about the game since I have been playing; nightmares of the game getting out of hand and becoming too real. Each time I play the game it becomes more violent. It can take a little while to snap out of character and become yourself again, however playing it only once a week isn’t enough time for the game to blur reality. however if a kid were to play this game continuously for many week I think it could take over a kid’s perception of reality and become dangerous. I was the one being stupid, not the catholic church.

so, are you still playing the game? if so, STOP!! i know how you feel about making friends, but i don’t care how painfully shy you are, you can make friends doing something else!

I have yet to see a good argument for the exclusion of D&D as a hobby. The arguments seem to be as spurious as those who deride Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. Granted an immature mind can be negatively affected by these things but they are not on par with such things as Tarot Cards or other Occult activities that dispose a person to the demonic.

If D&D is immoral then so is the whole gamut of RPG video games from the Legend of Zelda to Final Fantasy.

:thumbsup:

It’s all the same: “Me and my mentally unstable friends do sick, disgusting things while playing the game. Some website explained to me that this is because D&D was invented by the Devil.”

I could just easily (and just as pointlessly) post a long rant about how Jim Jones used the Bible to justify adultery, assassination, and mass murder, and then claim that obviously the Bible is therefore evil, and, BTW, let’s look at all of these websites that agree with me.

– Mark L. Chance.

I think you’ll find that there’s not many of us here that would agree with you…especially since “the Catholic Church” has no official position on RPG’s of any type. In fact, many of us play on a regular basis…

Here’s a Jimmy Akin piece involving D&D (hint- he’s not outraged…and more than a little familiar with the subject…)
jimmyakin.org/2005/12/pope_to_change_.html

Oh, and another…
jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2004/12/neutral_good.html

Chick Tracts, on the other hand has a definite opinion on the subject.

I think it’s the folks you’re playing with moreso than the game itself.

I’ve been to hobby shops where they are all young adults to adults, none of them were goths or neopagans, and they all just sit around and have a friendly game where they’re all heroes going from town to town fighting off the goblin hordes. I mean, if the fantasy genre scares you, I suggest staying away from The Lord of the Rings also, which was written by the very Catholic Tolkien.

Also, there are other role-playing games which use dice and have nothing to do with magic, i.e. the Marvel Comics Role-Playing Game.

That is hilarious.

I don’t think such a character would fall under Lawful Good, would it now? It would either be Neutral Evil, or Chaotic Evil, though it’s more likely the latter. Even there you can see that, far from immoral, the game actually uses a moral order. The character acts according to the moral code he selected in the game.

The parents and kids wear many satanic symbols such as pentagrams, inverted crosses, dragons, devils, demons, and many sarcastic anti-god shirts.

There are some who might be like that; but certainly not all would be so. Rather pointless to say that IMO.

You should play Magic: the Gathering instead. Best form of birth control ever since most people who play it are virgins.

My opinion is that the issue of morality is minimally dependent upon the game, but overwhelmingly dependent upon who you play with. Personally, I run a DnD campaign for a few of my friends (all Catholics).

I would be extremely leary of being involved in a campaign that runs towards the darker side. As a player, I would never run a character that commits immoral acts like rape, murder, human sacrifice, or cannibilism, nor would I allow anybody in a campaign I run to do the same. As a DM, I will portray villains, but I find this less concerning as:
a) they are villains
b) I don’t personally associate myself with them in the same way that you do when you play one character
c) even so, I make them more generically evil, avoiding graphic descriptions of their evil acts

I would never play with the individuals you described once I knew them or their playing style.

D&D isn’t immoral.

By the way, the Player’s Handbook actually advises against evil alignments - “The first six alignments, lawful good through chaotic neutral, are the standard alignments for player characters. The three evil alignments are for monsters and villains.”

Interesting thread, since my 12 year old has suddenly gotten into it big time. I really didn’t know too much about it.

Wow. Do Catholics realy talk like that?

The concept you’re looking for is
Player: a real life person who plays a game.
Character: a fictional person

But what about the 8-sided platonic solid? The 12 sided shapes? or the 6-sided dice? And if you’re counting the d100 as a sides shape you should also include the d3 d7 d18 d24 d216 d30 d60 d1000 and 5d6 too.

No problem-o, that can happen to the best of us.

And how you play – I totally agree.

Sounds like you fell in with one seriously whacked out group of people and I would definitely look for another group. That should be clear – I mean, come on, you say, “the parents and kids wear many satanic symbols such as pentagrams, inverted crosses, dragons, devils, demons, and many sarcastic anti-god shirts.” DING DING DING - alarms going off – they don’t like our religion!

I played as a kid and we never used all the rules. We never even opened the Dieties and Demigods volume so we never did any of that creepy sacrifice stuff and our characters never had “gods.” Plus if they had a decent DM about it they would not be able to get away with all the bad stuff they do. If I were the DM a mob would hunt down their characters and bring them to justice for their crimes :slight_smile:

The game has the potential to be harmful but only in the way that most forms of entertainment do – if you are easily influenced by external things of this type then it would be bad for you – very similar to Atkins Blog on TV (there was a post in the Popular Media forum? about watching the Sopranos and what one should or should not view.)

I currently play as a lawful neutral cleric and have been a DM (Dungeon Master - the guy who runs the game) in the past and possibly in the future. It is actually our “guys night out” at least for six of us. Five of us are all very devout Catholics and we bring that to the game. If you want to know about he game itself feel free to send me a PM. For your son I would recommend that you just observe and guide him and in fact invite the group over to your house to play so that you can see for yourself what the game is like and if you are comfortable with the way he and his friends are playing.

Dungeons and Dragons is not an immoral act against anything. Some people do take it the wrong way some of the time. However those who know that it is fantasy and keeps it in the fantasy world shouldn’t have a problem. I am a weekly church goers and I believe with my whole heart that god really don’t care what we do as long as it is a fantasy world and once back into reality don’t act upon these fantasies. There are those who don’t believe in god. And delve into all of this role-playing and when the final decision is made for their lives then so be it. I think that some people are looking at this a little to seriously on both sides and need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture not all of it is bad in fact. Instead of thinking about that kid that eats innocent flesh for worship, think about the paladins that worship their god and saves innocent lives from the brink of death. You can go either way. As long as you acknowledge that there are always two sides of the story you will understand my stand point.[SIGN]Please Look at both Sides before acting on them.[/SIGN]

This thread is a hoax.
Here’s the explanation by “mattltayl” the original poster and self-identified mason pretending to be a Fundamentalist warning Catholics about D&D. :whacky:

You can read the whole thing here:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=111325

This coming from the pokemon master :rolleyes:

Sorry, you’re either a liar or play games with sociopaths. Given the rest of your post I would lean towards you being a liar. None of that stuff is part of the game. I suppose it’s possible, in the same way that it might be possible to bring a hammer to a football game and kill someone. It’s certainly not part of the rules.

Everything the church has been saying about satanic symbols in the game is true.

No it’s not.

he parents and kids wear many satanic symbols such as pentagrams, inverted crosses, dragons, devils, demons, and many sarcastic anti-god shirts. One girl who plays in the game frequently wears a t-shirt with an inverted pentagram encised in a circle, inverted cross earings, and wears an opal ring. These kids are also into heavy metal, I am not saying all heavy metal is bad, but Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne, and Creed definitely are.

I thought you were talking about symbols in the game? What does the things your friends wear have anything to do with DnD? If I said I have a friend who wears a dragon t-shirt to bible study, does that make the bible satanic?

And Creed? Is this whole post some kind of joke or something? You have a problem with Creed? The christian rock group Creed? A problem other then their music being lousy?

The dice in the game symbolize witchcraft in my opinion.

Well the moon causes aids in my opinion. :rolleyes:

One day I decided to research the origons of role-playing dice. They originated in mystic practices!

They originated from people who wanted random number generation without a computer.

Plato has an intresting theory about what he called platonic solids. He theorized a 20-sided platonic solid represented water, a 10 sided shape represent fire, a 4-sided dice represented earth, and a 100 sides shape represented air. These are all the shapes of dice used in Dungeons and Dragons.

That’s just false. D100s aren’t really used and D6s and D8s are. You obviously haven’t played the game and are just making this all up.

If you put these all together fire, earth, air, water, and the player has a human spirit. That makes up all the components to cast spells!

WOOOOOOOOOO. Someone get my tin-foil hat. You know what else has earth, water, air, fire, and spirit…the olympics! No really, think about it. Ever wonder why they chose those colors? Blue is water, red is fire, green is earth, and yellow is sky. Black represents evil. They swim in the water, jump through the air, run along the ground, and then light a big torch! Gee wiz, this stuff is easy when you can just make it up without any sort of evidence! :rolleyes:

Recent version of the games have tried to eliminate some of these satanic symbols in the game, however the origional 1st edition Advanced Dungeons and dragons game has many satanic symbols in it. I looked through both the players manual and the dungeon masters guide and found many disturbing pictures.

Wasn’t that created 30 years ago?

The dragon’s head can symbolize the 5 points of the inverted pentagram.

Or it could be a dragon’s head. Come on, there’s no way this story your weaving is true. No one just comes up with these thoughts on their own. You’re not some innocent D&Der caught up in a web of satanism here, you’re a propaganda pushing liar whose pretending to have played something they’ve obviously never touched.

Although some may percieve the dragon to be an inocent symbol, it is not in this game.

It isn’t? What is it?

I have looked at occult symbols, in particular the dragon. A frequent symbol is two dragons embracing an inverted sword. The dragon tails make a fiqure 8. This exact same symbol can be found in both books. The dragons in these books are drawn standing ontop of human skulls.

I’ve never seen that. Of course, admittedly, you’re supposedly working from a text with only a few surviving copies, so it’s no suprise I haven’t gotten my hands on it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:D%26d_Box1st.jpg

wheeee

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