Duplicate Verses in Mark 9 (Hell)


#1

In St Mark's Gospel chapter 9, Our Lord talks about Hell (vv. 44-48).

Depending on the Bible translation one reads, some of those verses will be deleted. The verses concerned would be 44, 46, 48 (numbering may vary depending on the translation) which read:

"the worm which eats them there never dies, the fire is never quenched." (Douay-Rheims)

The Douay-Rheims version includes them all (off by one verse in the numbering from mine), but some other Bibles delete delete them. What is the reason for deleting them, if there is any? Which translation is better in this regard?


#2

Hi BC,

The best Greek manuscripts do not contain Vulgate 44 and 46. The Vulgate, in this case, was not based on the best manuscripts.

Verbum


#3

[quote="Verbum, post:2, topic:337265"]
Hi BC,
The best Greek manuscripts do not contain Vulgate 44 and 46. The Vulgate, in this case, was not based on the best manuscripts.
Verbum

[/quote]

Greek fathers such as Theophilus of Antioch (AD 160) and Chrysostom ( AD 347–407) give commentaries mentioning v44 and v46. I think it is not plausible to argue that we have better Greek manuscripts than Jerome had access to. The original Gospel of John still existed in Ephesus when he was alive, as was Hebrew Matthew in Caesarea. Most of the treasures of antiquity still existed since the Mohammedans did not yet destroy them. There was some variations that he had to sort out, and he chose to preserve rather than discard plausible variations.


#4

[quote="irenaeuslyons, post:3, topic:337265"]
Greek fathers such as Theophilus of Antioch (AD 160) and Chrysostom ( AD 347–407) give commentaries mentioning v44 and v46. I think it is not plausible to argue that we have better Greek manuscripts than Jerome had access to. The original Gospel of John still existed in Ephesus when he was alive, as was Hebrew Matthew in Caesarea. Most of the treasures of antiquity still existed since the Mohammedans did not yet destroy them. There was some variations that he had to sort out, and he chose to preserve rather than discard plausible variations.

[/quote]

At the same time however, I don't think we should just uncritically take whatever early writers say at face value just because they're 'early'.


#5

[quote="irenaeuslyons, post:3, topic:337265"]
Greek fathers such as Theophilus of Antioch (AD 160) and Chrysostom ( AD 347–407) give commentaries mentioning v44 and v46. I think it is not plausible to argue that we have better Greek manuscripts than Jerome had access to. The original Gospel of John still existed in Ephesus when he was alive, as was Hebrew Matthew in Caesarea. Most of the treasures of antiquity still existed since the Mohammedans did not yet destroy them. There was some variations that he had to sort out, and he chose to preserve rather than discard plausible variations.

[/quote]

But the verses I refer to aren't on John or Matthew, but Mark.


#6

[quote="CutlerB, post:5, topic:337265"]
But the verses I refer to aren't on John or Matthew, but Mark.

[/quote]

I was not answering you with reference to John or Matthew. My answer to you was that early Greek fathers quoted those verses.

My reference to John and Matthew was in reply to the doubtful claim that we have better manuscripts today than Jerome did.


#7

The manuscript witnesses are (almost) the same for both verses 44 and 46: Codex Alexandrinus (A, 5th c.), Bezae (D, 5th c.), Koridethi (Θ, 9th c.), Monacensis (X, 10th c.), Family 13, Minuscule 700, Minuscule 1342, the Latin, the Majority text, the Syriac Peshitta, the Harklean Syriac, the Gothic.

Manuscripts which do not have the text meanwhile include Codex Sinaiticus (4th c.), Vaticanus (B, 4th c.), Ephraemi (C, 5th c.), Washingtonianus (W, 5th c.), Uncial 0274 (5th c.), Regius (L, 8th c.), Sangallensis (Δ, 9th c.), Athous Lavrensis (Ψ, 10th c.), Family 1, Minuscule 28, Minuscule 565, Codex Bobiensis (k), the Syriac Sinaiticus, and the Coptic.


#8

Eusebius does not separate these wors into different canons, suggesting that the passage occurs only once in his versions. More specifically, canon 99.2 (item 99, table 2) is Mark 9:42, which is then followed by 100.6 (9:43-47), then 101.10 (9:48-49), then 102.2 (9:50), and so on. To give a clear picture of what I’m talking about:

94.[sup]10[/sup] (v. 33) And they came to Capernaum. And when he was in the house he asked them, “What were you discussing on the way?”

(Parallel: No parallel)

95.[sup]2[/sup] (v. 34-37a) But they kept silent, for on the way they had argued with one another about who was the greatest. And he sat down and called the twelve. And he said to them, “If anyone would be first, he must be last of all and servant of all.” And he took a child and put him in the midst of them, and taking him in his arms, he said to them, “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me.”

(Parallel: Matthew 18:1-5 (178.2); Luke 9:46-48 (102.2); Luke 18:17 (217.2))

96.[sup]1[/sup] (v. 37b) “And whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.”

(Parallel: Matthew 10:40 (98.1); Luke 10:16 (116.1); John 5:20b (40.1); John 12:44-45 (111.1); John 13:20 (120.1); John 14:21b (129.1); John 14:24b-25 (131.1); John 15:23 (144.1))

97.[sup]8[/sup] (v. 38-40) John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. For the one who is not against us is for us.”

(Parallel: Luke 9:49-50 (103.8)

98.[sup]6[/sup] (v. 41) “For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.”

(Parallel: Matthew 10:42 (100.6))

**99.[sup]2[/sup] **(v. 42) “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.”

(Parallel: Matthew 18:6-7 (179.2); Luke 17:1-2 (197.2))

100.[sup]6[/sup] (v. 43-47) “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell.”

(Parallel: Matthew 18:8-9 (180.6))

101.[sup]10[/sup] (v. 48-49) “‘Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.”

(Parallel: No parallel)

102.[sup]2[/sup] (v. 50) “Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”

(Parallel: Matthew 5:13 (31.2); Luke 14:34-35 (185.2))

Canon 101 (containing verse 48-49) is listed as belonging to Table 10: sections which have no parallels in the other gospels. The preceding verses (Canon 100) are linked with their Matthaean parallel (18:8-9). Had Eusebius known of verses 44 and 46 he would have also given them their own separate canons.

It had been suggested that verses 44 and 46 were deliberately added to make the passage - which is somewhat semi-liturgical and incantatory - symmetric and better memorable by repetition. (In the Byzantine lectionary, Mark 9:42-10:1 was - and still is - the reading for the Monday of the Thirty-First Week after Pentecost.)


#9

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