This illustrates the problem that many Eastern Orthodox have with Catholicism. In the Orthodox Church the creed is not a matter of semantics, but of orthodox belief.
Yes. Both Catholicism and Orthodoxy teach that they are right and the other group seriously wrong.
It is tough. The Orthodox claim isn’t that the Pope isn’t the successor of Peter. Their claim is that he doesn’t have wide authority over the Church. It seems to me Peter clearly was the leader of the Church and that included a special authority. If the Pope is the successor he would have an authority over the Church too.
But what made the decision easier for me was I realized I’m Western. As much as Eastern Christianity appeals to me in many ways I’m more Western. And my roots are in the Catholic Church. It was that Church my ancestors left. So returning to Catholicism made more sense.
What sured up my decision was learning that the Orthodox were in the past ready to end the schism. It was worked out but they never followed through. So to me it is clear they are the ones in schism.
1, Depends on the Church and the situation. Generally they will refuse you, and rightly so. But there do exist regional exceptions to this for a variety of reasons.
3. Orthodox opinions on the Pope differ from person to person and in any case refusal to allow you to commune is not based on like or dislike of the Pope.
4. I can’t speak to your experience here but Orthodox priests and parishes vary just like our own.
Indeed yes, but that is their call. The members knows the rules.
I don’t understand the whole filioque thing. Is it really that important?
I found a really great link on the matter, but it’s super long. But within the first 5 minutes of reading there’s already a lot. It deals with the whole semantics thing, Greek Vs. Latin, the bad claim by the Orthodox that the Spirit only temporally proceeds from the Son, etc. it’s very good. I’ve read for about an hour and I’m about a third done with it. If you want to read, go ahead, it’s reallt good and clears up a lot. But if you don’t, I can summarize it later.
This is not only offensive, but inaccurate. Our liturgy dates back to the year 398. I am older than the Roman Catholic liturgy. The Roman Catholic church was in communion with the Orthodox until the Roman Catholic Church unilaterally changed the Creed which was decided upon at an ecumenical council. This changed the fundamental character of the Trinity by espousing the notion that the Holy Spirit is subservient to the Father and Son. Also, The Roman Church’s claim of infallibility and primacy of the Bishop of Rome is a modern (from an Orthodox perspective) innovation. People of good will may disagree on these topics, but it isn’t helpful to make snide comments.
For the OP, while Roman canon law permits Orthodox to receive in the Roman church and in the Orthodox church (in limited circumstances), the Orthodox church will not permit either of these things.
For what it is worth, I love the Roman Catholic Church and am close friends with many members and clergy. I hope to see reconciliation in my lifetime and spend a good bit of my time correcting inaccurate ideas and statements from members of both churches and hopefully promoting healing from past abuses and persecutions.
Fr. Dcn. John
Edit: I should have read the entire thread before responding. Lots of this has already been covered. Needless to say, it is not as cut and dry as some of the RC posters here would suggest.
If the pope would resume his position as primus of the Church and yeild to the supremacy of ecumenical council, schism over.
I am sorry if that came off as offensive. It was more of a rhetorical question to provoke thinking. Again, I am sorry.
But, there was no Orthodox Church, yes? Also, what about not recognizing the validity and authority of Ecumenical Councils after Nicaea II in 787AD? Where were the Orthodox from 787-1054AD, or more accurately 787-1450AD?
I think @dochawk nailed it a few posts up and you’re just not seeing it.
The Orthodox claim to be the “‘Catholic’ Church”. They pull back exactly none from any claim of catholicity on their part.
They would argue that there was no Roman Catholic Church until the pope assumed more power than he was intended to have.
Of course! They ‘claim’ and ‘argue’. That doesn’t mean they’re right, with all due respect to them.
Same goes for Catholics, quite obviously.
Except, submission to the Bishop of Rome goes back to Saint Peter. That claim not only be backed up, but by the authority the Pope has, he has a divine right to make that claim.
99% of Orthodox have little problem with submission to the Chair of Peter as a matter of last resort. That was arguably his greatest duty as Primus.
This whole idea of supremacy and immediate jurisdiction is kinda what has their panties all in a twist. And maybe rightfully so.
Sure, I see that, too. Can’t we just all get along!
I think Vatican 1 might have screwed it up for good
I would go as far to say that the EO would even be ok with him having supremacy over the entire Latin Church, but leave the Eastern Churches alone unless they ask for help. He should be the last court of appeals, as it were.
This is correct. Clergy must answer to God for anyone who they commune so it is imperative to be certain of the person communing. It is the norm for a parishioner to let their priest know they will be traveling. The priest will give a travel blessing and contact the priest at the parish they will be visiting. The receiving priest may ask that the visitor receive confession and attend Vespers with him the evening before communion (this last bit is mostly for ROCOR parishes).
As clergy, it is a bit more difficult. I must ask my priest permission to ask my bishop to travel. My bishop then contacts the receiving bishop and gives permission (to attend, commune, serve, or all three). The receiving bishop then communicates this to the receiving priest.
This may sound difficult, but in practice it is really rather nice. Having been on both sides it is nice to be able to properly welcome visiting parishoners or clergy and when traveling you feel like visiting royalty.
Our parishes are kept smaller by design typically with only one liturgy. We are a family and while we love visitors, it is only polite to let someone know prior to dropping by if you intend to receive communion.
Fr. Dcn. John
I agree with that! Seems like you have been paying attention to Pope Francis’ words.
Indeed…the question remains though; Can the clause concerning Papal Supremacy be amended/redefined to have it pertain solely to the Latin Church?