"Easternizations" in Latin Rite Churches

Gosh, I wish I could provide you with pictures. Sacred Heart Church here in Baton Rouge is architecturally Byzantine. The dome above the altar has a painting of Christ Pantokrator (sp?). All of the other paintings in the church are done in an Eastern iconographic style. The same artist (a Benedictine monk) decorated St. Joseph’s Abbey in St. Benedict, LA - all done in an Eastern iconongraphic style. I can’t remember his name and neither Sacred Heart nor St. Joseph’s has a website. His name was Dom… Both done back in the 30s.

As a member of our cathedral choir, while we have not sung in Greek (unless you count the Kyrie), we have used Greek chant for the Beatitudes and on Good Friday our Reproaches are Greek - Holy is God, Holy and Strong, Holy Immortal One have mercy on us…

I think people are missing something here about Latinizations.

Latinizations replaced our authentic traditions. Our Icons were replaced with Statues. Matins was suppressed and replaced with the recitation of the rosary. Saturday Great Vespers was suppressed and replaced with a Vigil Divine Liturgy. Presanctified Liturgy during Great Lent was suppressed and replaced with Stations of the Cross.

Where as, what is being called, Easterniztions are not replacing things in the Latin Church, they are just additions. People talk about Icons in their Latin Church, yet there are still Statues.

Other than Icons, I do not see much else.

These are two totally different things. One of them, Latinizations, were forced on Byzantines from the outside to make them appear more Latin where the other one, Easternizations, are not being forced upon the Latin Church but are being adopted by the Latin Church on its own.

David, please forgive me if I have offended. Such was not my intent. My experience with either the Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics has only been on two occassions in my life. As an anthropology major at the University of New Orleans, one of my classmates was EO and invited all of us RCs to attend what we would call the Great Vigil - Holy Saturday services and then to go to her family’s house for the traditional Paschal meal. As a grad student at LSU, a friend from PA asked me to serve as a lector at her Byzantine rite marriage at Sacred Heart. Both times, I felt a great affinity for the eastern liturgies since my religious formation was predominately pre-VII. To put it simply, here in south Louisiana we do not have a tremendous amount of experience with our eastern brethren. There is a sizeable Croat community here but I have no idea if they were Eastern or Latin Catholics.

Wow. I am really at a loss here. I do not mean to offend. The two eastern liturgies I attended were a blessing upon me compared to some of the modern masses I have attended.

[quote=brotherhrolf]David, please forgive me if I have offended. Such was not my intent. My experience with either the Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics has only been on two occassions in my life. As an anthropology major at the University of New Orleans, one of my classmates was EO and invited all of us RCs to attend what we would call the Great Vigil - Holy Saturday services and then to go to her family’s house for the traditional Paschal meal. As a grad student at LSU, a friend from PA asked me to serve as a lector at her Byzantine rite marriage at Sacred Heart. Both times, I felt a great affinity for the eastern liturgies since my religious formation was predominately pre-VII. …

Wow. I am really at a loss here. I do not mean to offend. The two eastern liturgies I attended were a blessing upon me compared to some of the modern masses I have attended.
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Brotherhrolf,

I don’t think my brother took offense at your words, which I thought were clearly an affirmation of the beauty of our liturgical prayer, both in chant and depiction (icons are to us a visualized prayer, offering, as we describe them, a window into heaven). David’s well-made point was intended to distinguish the fact that, unless someone tells us differently, the West doesn’t see its adoption of things Eastern as burdensome to it or as an infringement on its liturgical praxis, having adopted these of its own volition.

We, on the other hand, had no choice in the matter generally (it is true that our ancestors adopted some latinizations as a means by which to appear “more Catholic” or “more American” or “less foreign”, since their experience in being the opposite of those was negative to say the least). Being much in the minority among our own co-religionists, we often accepted latinization, to the detriment of our own praxis and, as in all things, it is easier to do than to undo.

His remarks were a caution, as I understand them, not to get caught up in the fallacy that since the easternizations taken up by the West are seen positively by those who have adopted them, that it doesn’t change what latinizations meant to us - a negative experience.

To put it simply, here in south Louisiana we do not have a tremendous amount of experience with our eastern brethren. There is a sizeable Croat community here but I have no idea if they were Eastern or Latin Catholics.

There is now a Melkite mission in NO and an effort underway to form a mission for the sizeable Arberesh community, the Byzantine Italo-Greico-Albanian Catholics. Additionally, the Ruthenians have a chapel in NO. A former Maronite chapel has been suppressed.

It’s likely that the Croat community was Latin, as were the majority of Croat Catholic immigrants. The smaller Byzantine Croat presence was almost entirely found within the Rust Belt.

Many years,

Neil

[quote=ByzCath]I don’t think so. I think this is nothing more than inculturation. As Americans we left the royalty of Western Europe. In American Culture we stand to show respect, the same as the East does. If you notice, it is prisoners who kneel.
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I have to disagree with you on this one. My read of the situation is that modern American culture has not come up with a substitute for kneeling because it has almost wholly eliminated the concepts of sacredness and reverence. In modern America, we still stand in formal situations, like welcoming a dignitary, but the everyday culture has eliminated historical forms of showing respect and deference, like standing when a woman entered the room, doffing one’s hat to a lady or dignitary (also due to less pervasive hat use), etc. Rampant egalitarianism has led many to refuse to recognize differences among people, places, and events. This has spilled over into our treatment of religious people, places, and events as well.

[quote=netmilsmom]To be quite honest with you, if our liturgy was as holy as the Eastern Rite mass, I would not have a problem with it.
One must look at the big picture.
As we go to the “Ancient Church” for a way to act in mass, it homogenized with the schizims. Those that Protested against the Catholic Church.
Eastern Rites are Catholic.

I would have less of a problem will innovations coming to our churches if they looked like Eastern Rite and the focus was the same as in the Eastern Rite. On the Eucharist.
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The problem with this idea is that we are encouraged by the popes and magesterium not to mix our rites. The eastern Churches should maintian their traditions, and the western Church should remain western.

[quote=GoLatin]There has been much talk about “Latinizations” in Eastern Rite Churches.

So can anybody give me some examples of “Easternization” in Latin Rite Churches?

Thank you!
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ByzCath is right though. The Eastern Catholic Churches were Latinized because the dominant hegemony dictated that these minority groups were to become assimilated into the majority. Latinizations are considered anathema because there not Eastern patrimony. It’s triumphalism to say that our way is better than theirs. (I’m certainly not saying you believe that! I’m just talking about the thought process behind Latinzations in general . ) Both lungs are equal.

Now, nobody has mentioned the ultimate “Hellenization” though it’s really just a hold-over from when the entire Church was Greek.

The Kyrie Eleison!

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