Ecumenism at Vatican Council I


#1

Isn’t it amazing how two Ecumenical Councils, so closely associated, could have such a different view of ecumenism. The quote below is from Bl. Pius IX at the convocation of the First Vatican Council:

[quote=Blessed Pius IX’s Iam Vos Omnes (Ecumenism)]It is for this reason that so many who do not share “the communion and the truth of the Catholic Church” must make use of the occasion of the Council, by the means of the Catholic Church, which received in Her bosom their ancestors, proposes [further] demonstration of profound unity and of firm vital force; hear the requirements [demands] of her heart, they must engage themselves to leave this state that does not guarantee for them the security of salvation. She does not hesitate to raise to the Lord of mercy most fervent prayers to tear down of the walls of division, to dissipate the haze of errors, and lead them back within holy Mother Church, where their Ancestors found salutary pastures of life; where, in an exclusive way, is conserved and transmitted whole the doctrine of Jesus Christ and wherein is dispensed the mysteries of heavenly grace.

It is therefore by force of the right of Our supreme Apostolic ministry, entrusted to us by the same Christ the Lord, which, having to carry out with [supreme] participation all the duties of the good Shepherd and to follow and embrace with paternal love all the men of the world, we send this Letter of Ours to all the Christians from whom We are separated, with which we exhort them warmly and beseech them with insistence to hasten to return to the one fold of Christ; we desire in fact from the depths of the heart their salvation in Christ Jesus, and we fear having to render an account one day to Him, Our Judge, if, through some possibility, we have not pointed out and prepared the way for them to attain eternal salvation.
[/quote]

Interesting. I find the quote above very well-suited and the plain, explicit language very refreshing. Oh that our Protestant friends would return to the safety of the bosom of the one Catholic Church!

Pax Christi tecum.


#2

Interesting quote which from my read does not say that anyone not a card carrying member of the Roman Catholic Church cannot be saved, but certainly alludes to that danger as being possible. The documents from Vatican II make the situation much more understandable.

Problem was that the common belief among many Catholics in reading the above quote read into it that one had to be a card carrying Roman Catholic or you were definitely damned. Some still do that. So the good Bishops at Vatican II clarified matters and removed a lot of the potential for misunderstanding.

That does not change the fact that anyone, anyone that is saved, is saved through the merits of Jesus Christ distributed or mediated out to the world through his Church, the Roman Catholic Church.Nor does it change the fact that if one comes to believe that the Roman catholic Church is the true Church, one must join it or be damned.


#3

I think the words of Bl. Pius IX makes the situation of Protestant’s souls more clear, that they are definitely in danger of eternal ruin and that they need to seriously consider their situation. Vatican II and thereafter seems to make it seem as if most if not all Protestants will be saved as long as they are genuine in their desire or something.

Pax Christi tecum.


#4

I agree there seems to be a danger among Catholics when defending the faith. They sometimes dont lay ot on the line and tell Protestants that they are in danger of going to hell because they arent in Christ’s church. One of the reasons i love pat Madrid alot is that he said just that in his debate with James White on sola scriptura in 1993. Madrid, who was Vice President of Catholic Answers at the time, told the Protestants, in his closing arguments, that they were in danger of going to hell because they were not Catholic. To me. it was an example of TRUE CHARITY. Here are Madrid’s words:

"In my final minute I want to say that I didn’t come here to win arguments, I came here to share the truth. I came here to invite you all to the fullness of the truth which is found in the Catholic Church. And I’d like to use the words of a famous Catholic apologist, Edmund Campion, who is a priest. He was formerly a Protestant, then he converted to the Catholic church. He wrote this letter and I hope you’ll give me a couple seconds over–if I go over 10 or 15 seconds. [Discussion about how much time is left. The moderator informs Mr. Madrid that 2 minutes are remaining.] I would like to use his words to make my own tonight because I know that many of you are not Catholic and I know that many of you run the RISK OF GOING TO HELL if you do not accept the truth that Jesus Christ is offering to you. If you leave this room tonight and you suppress the doubt that may be in your heart about what Mr. White is saying tonight or the questioning that may be in your heart about whether or not the Catholic Church is the true church, you have to answer to God at some point. You don’t have to answer to me or Mr. White. I’m inviting you to consider, to study, to pray about the Catholic position. No, Mr. White, I don’t mean that in the Mormon sense of the word. I mean that in the Biblical sense of the word. Here’s what Edmund Campion said. I say this to all of you and I also say it respectfully and with some affection for Mr. White.

“Many innocent hands are lifted up to Heaven for you daily by those Catholics around the world, those Catholic apologists whose posterity shall never die, which beyond the seas gathering virtue and sufficient knowledge for the purpose are determined never to give you over but either to win you for Heaven or to die upon your pikes. Be it known to you that we have made a league, all the Catholics in the world, whose succession and multitude must overarch all practices of the Protestant world. We cheerfully will carry the cross you shall lay upon us and never despair for your recovery. While we have a man left to enjoy your (842) or to be wrapped up in your torments, or consumed with your prisons, the expense is reckoned, the enterprise has begun, it is of God, it cannot be withstood. So the faith was planted, so it must be restored. If these my offers tonight be refused and my endeavors can take no place, and I, having run thousands of miles to do you good, shall be rewarded with rigor, I have no more to say but to recommend your case and mine to Almighty God, the searcher of hearts who sends us His grace and set us in accord before the day of payment. To the end we may at last be friends in Heaven when all injuries shall be forgotten.”

God Bless you Mr. Madrid!!!:thumbsup:


#5

Wow! I agree, true charity!! It’s might not feel good or be comfortable but those words are true charity toward Protestants.

What does Patrick Madrid do now?

I’d never have expected a Catholic Answer’s apologist to warn Protestants of the danger they are in of hell.

Pax Christi tecum.


#6

No, Catholic Answers WILL speak the truth, but they have to be prudent (no that doesnt mean compromise). I actually think Catholic Answers(Jimmy Akin–who is awesome) and Bob Sungenis may be the two best in the USA. My opinion of course. Madrid, I believe, has his own apologetic orginization. Envoy magazine I believe is his.
p.s. Keep in mind Karl Keating’s work has been blessed by God immensely. If it wasnt for Karl’s hard work many many souls would have been lost. Thanls Karl!!!


#7

Isn’t Robert Sungenis a traditional Catholic? And he is part of Catholic Answers?

Pax Christi tecum.


#8

He, from what I understand, is traditional, but NO he is not part of Catholic Answers. They have had their “differences,” but I believe they are in the works of “patching things up.” Sungenis’ web site is catholicapologeticsinternational.com. You can google Bob Sungenis, and you will get it.


#9

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