Ecumenism with Lutherans


#305

Because being offensive is not one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit. They are:

love,
joy,
peace,
long-suffering,
kindness,
goodness,
faithfulness,
gentleness,
self-control.


#306

I’m not sure I said that. All my responses were “compared” or “in the presence of”. I do think I made that clear.

So if lengthy paragraphs makes you think I say things I didn’t, I’ll summarise it for you…

Compared to God, anything else is a “mere” thing. Their holiness by itself wasn’t even addressed in any of my posts.

Hope that can make more sense to you now.

Not sure what you expect me to say when you do an amateur psychological evaluation on me when that wasn’t even my words. Next I’ll probably have anger issues?

Obviously I have no idea how you grew up but I tend to think it’s somewhat different to me. Can’t really recall that was ever even mentioned let alone being “taught” to me.


#307

Those who dissent from the teachings of Rome? They would be those who dissent from the teachings of successive Popes, and the PCPCU, on ecumenism.


#308

Please discuss the topic at hand, not the poster. Thanks.


#309

Why should Jesus as a good Jewish man have been considerate to the Romans as pagan gentiles who thought the Jewish religion was hooey, and oppressed and killed Jews on a regular basis?

I thought we were supposed to be acting like him and following his example.


#310

What are the main teaching points on ecumenism that the posters here are contradicting?


#311

The line of thought: God alone is holy. No creature can be compared to God. No creature should be called holy and venerated since God alone is holy and nothing can be compared to God.

It’s common protestant line of reasoning. It’s based on desire to not offend God, which I suppose is a good thing. Can’t say it’s beneficial because it’s a misconception, but not malicious.

I’m sorry I took things perhaps too literally and personally - I saw things that may not have been there.

What ticked me off was your “ever Virgin Mary” in quotes, as if you’re belittling.

And the last part about blasphemy. Veneration of saints is not blasphemy. We glorify God by honoring His saints who manifest His mercy and goodness.


#312

Fair enough, I should have addressed it to ComplineSanFran first hand rather then in a 3rd person way. @ComplineSanFran my apologies.

I stand by everything I said, but not in the way I said it in that post.

Thank you for reading.


#313

Not really, but thank you for posting it.

Because it was posted by yourself, and I remember previous threads where you said that you supported same sex marriage and because we believe marriage is only between a man and a woman, another poster took that as ‘hating gays’.

As for women clergy, it’s in the picture.

God Bless

Thank you for reading


#314

A poster just above says that joint services with Lutherans are wrong. The Pope teaches otherwise, and attended and took part in such services himself.

The poster above says showing a picture of Catholic priests attending a service with clergy, including women clergy, of other denominations, promotes heresy. The Pope teaches otherwise by attending a service with, and being photographed with, the woman Primate of the Church of Sweden.


#315

Yo

And he is not infallible in such matters.

Yup. It’s not just that though, it’s the fact that it’s Luther’s 500th anniversary, so we are pretending to have made strides in ecumenism and unification, but if they are celebrating Luther’s 500th anniversary, then obviously that is not true, do either Church not care that one of us are mourning this 500th anniversary while the other celebrate it and vice versa?

Unfortunately very scandalous. This same Church of Sweden that wants to make it mandatory for priests to marry people of the same sex?

God Bless

Thank you for reading


#316

Ecumenism is not a matter of infallibility, as is almost nothing that has been posted on this topic here by either side. If we are to ignore all the Church teaches that is not been declared dogma, then no one here will have any reason to complain, and should show a little more charity toward the Holy Father.

Jesus himself was very scandalous, and taught his disciples likewise, plucking grain and healing on the Sabbath. He was a scandal to the Pharisees that remained entrenched in their traditions, prejudice and self-importance. Rather, Jesus reached out to the ostracized and outcast.


#317

Fair enough, and ordinarily it would be very Christ like, except your forgetting it’s the 500th anniversary of Martin Luther that Pope Francis chose to do it on. Happy anniversary? Anyway, time will tell.

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Thank you for reading.


#318

As you say, fair enough. I too do no understand this. But in the end, there are bigger fish to fry. It is hardly worth losing peace, or people, over. I am no fan of Martin Luther, but neither do I like a lot of the Catholic leaders of his day. I think I could have done better, and responded to the corruption in the Catholic Church of the Sixteenth Century without slipping into schism. But then I know I am a product of the Twentieth Century with a whole lot of hindsight.

Full disclosure, I was raised as Baptist and did not join the Catholic Church until my forties. I understand “invincible ignorance” from the other side.


#319

Perhaps doesn’t directly promote heresy, but it can give the impression of false equality to a casual observer — that any Christian denomination is the same as the other.

The Church keeps the door open as an invitation, a starting point, but people might think any door of an ecclesial community is the same and doesn’t really matter at the end.

A life vest or a raft is not the same as a ship. But all are invited to seek safety and refuge in the ship.

Of course, the ultimate salvation is determined by God alone. Perhaps He directly picks up souls in troubled waters.


#320

Outside of the grace of God, shown through the merits of His Son, Jesus Christ, yes, I completely agree that everything I do is sinful and outside of God’s grace, merits eternal death. People do good works all the time. Will those works save them, or the Holy Spirit, Who inspired them by their faith to do those works? I happen to believe that all credit goes to God and that yes, " every little thing we do is sin," outside of God’s grace. Works- righteousness has no place in the theology I advocate, although for faith to be a real and viable part of one’s life, it must be expressed in love and manifested in works. It’s great that so much charitable work is done by so many good people. Will those works somehow guilt God into accepting into Heaven those who otherwise repudiate Him? I somehow doubt it. Jesus Christ must remain at the center. I’m sure that is greatly scandalous in the eyes of the world, but we’re not called to abide by the world’s standards.


#321

Interesting. I am a former Lutheran now continuing Anglican, and I am not convinced or influenced to believe that the pope simply meeting with her promotes heresy. It doesn’t convince me that her ordination is in any way valid.


#322

No, and you do not surprise me. I am familiar with your views on the ordination of women. My views on that subject are not relevant, as I am not a Christian. I do have a bias towards reconciliation and peace rather than division and battle, and that leads me to admire the efforts to bring Christians together. And I am unimpressed by those posters who argue that Luther’s dissent from Rome was evil while practising dissent themselves.

The event I was recalling, by the way, was the Pope’s inauguration of the Catholic commemoration of the 500th with a joint service in October last year with Swedish Lutherans in Lund Cathedral.


#323

Actually, I was agreeing with your point, that his meeting with her doesn’t in any way defend or promote heresy. It is fine for him to meet with her.


#324

This could be a common Protestant reasoning but then that would just mean I am no common Protestant. You see , I have a Polish Catholic family in law where my father-in-law has worked in Russia and Moldova before. Their entire house is full of Icons he received and I have no issue being between all these Saints. Actually I have 2 Icons he commissioned for me at my request from a well known artist in Moldova when he was working there. These are fully authentic Icons according to the standards.

This one is hanging in my room. No I am not praying to it but I would think it wouldn’t even be hanging there if that was my reasoning.

This one is hanging in my living room. It would be the first one anyone sees when entering my house.

Now I am aware Catholics don’t do Icons kike the Orthodox but I just thought to share that from me personally to say just because I am Protestant one can’t assume what I think.

It’s cool. No worries

I thought afterwards the quotations would be a mistake. Belittling was not my intention.

As for the blasphemy part. That is not directed as to how you mentioned it. The way the poster who originally replied to me worded hes/her post was the point there. There are numerous threads on here how Catholics try to explain the prayer to Saints and so on and also try and explain it doesn’t mean they worship/think they are the ones anwering. I just think that wording makes it more difficult as it attemps to compare something to God. I know the Catholic argument but that wasn’t my point.

Regards


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