End times.. why doesn't Jesus know?


#1

Hi, in Scriptures we read that Jesus Himself doesn’t know when the end of the world is. Why is this so if He is God Himself and equal to the Father?

Or am I reading some things out of context?


#2

Well i think its because Jesus is not the Creator of the World. I think it is not Jesus job to end the world. :wink:

Just my view and no biblical or theological basis.


#3

My personal suspicion is that as the Incarnation Jesus’ knowledge wasn’t total. In coming to Earth, the Second Person of the Divine Trinity accepted limitations, which dissolved upon His resurrection.

Otherwise, could Jesus have suffered?


#4

[quote=BibleReader]My personal suspicion is that as the Incarnation Jesus’ knowledge wasn’t total. In coming to Earth, the Second Person of the Divine Trinity accepted limitations, which dissolved upon His resurrection.

Otherwise, could Jesus have suffered?
[/quote]


I believe this to be the answer! :thumbsup:


#5

I think the answer is that when the man asks Jesus this question; We all well know that Jesus was a man, if he had answered that he knew, people would have worshipped Jesus in idols and the like. He was telling the man that to God only should you put forth praise and not in men. It was a matter of principle, and so he said he did not know.


#6

How’s this…

Perhaps Jesus was relating the profound importance of “always being ready” in an exaggerated way (Rabbinic hyperbolae?) to drive home this point. Something like: if even I don’t know then you can see how important it is for you to be vigilant. My thinking is that this was directed more towards future generations than those living at the time. Don’t know… I’m not sure if scripture supports that opinion; weren’t the apostles expecting that Christ would return in their lifetimes?

Or…

A long time ago I remember reading or hearing something to the effect; Jesus could pick and choose what he wanted to “remember” or not. I thought that sounded “cheesy”, but it does fit the verse.


#7

[quote=ANWK]Hi, in Scriptures we read that Jesus Himself doesn’t know when the end of the world is. Why is this so if He is God Himself and equal to the Father?

Or am I reading some things out of context?
[/quote]

Jesus did not know because he was truely human. Jesus is the image of God for us all to see God face to face, so that we know God. Jesus is the image of God in a man.

God decides to show us His Face, so He send His Son. Bearing God’s Face, Jesus is God. God decides to tell us His Name, so He send His Son. Bearing The Name of God, Jesus is God. In this name is given all power and authority in heaven and earth. Bearing God’s Power and Authority, Jesus is God Himself.

God decides to go down to the pit of death, in order to snatch us from death. He becomes TRUELY HUMAN : to restore to all humanity: “the image and the glory of God” that once was Adam’s before the fall.

God bless.


#8

[quote=Wildgraywolf]How’s this…

Perhaps Jesus was relating the profound importance of “always being ready” in an exaggerated way (Rabbinic hyperbolae?) to drive home this point. Something like: if even I don’t know then you can see how important it is for you to be vigilant. My thinking is that this was directed more towards future generations than those living at the time. Don’t know… I’m not sure if scripture supports that opinion; weren’t the apostles expecting that Christ would return in their lifetimes?

Or…

A long time ago I remember reading or hearing something to the effect; Jesus could pick and choose what he wanted to “remember” or not. I thought that sounded “cheesy”, but it does fit the verse.
[/quote]

:thumbsup:
I heard this on a Catholic answers program…Jesus knew, but Chose not to divulge the information.


#9

[quote=BibleReader]My personal suspicion is that as the Incarnation Jesus’ knowledge wasn’t total. In coming to Earth, the Second Person of the Divine Trinity accepted limitations, which dissolved upon His resurrection.

Otherwise, could Jesus have suffered?
[/quote]

I’m sorry, but had to address this. This is heresy. Please read

475 in the Catechism.

Jesus is FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN.
He knew very well the day and the hour of the end of time. He is God, and not only does he know when the world will end, he will end it.
He didn’t reveal the time to the Apostles because he wanted them to be ready always, as he wants us to be ready always.
He is the Word become flesh precisely so he could suffer. Please, Catholics, check your Catechisms or Canon Law before you post things you’re not sure of. A lot of non-Catholics read these boards. We have to have our facts straight and our stuff together.


#10

[quote=Strider]I’m sorry, but had to address this. This is heresy. Please read

475 in the Catechism.

Jesus is FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN.
He knew very well the day and the hour of the end of time. He is God, and not only does he know when the world will end, he will end it.
He didn’t reveal the time to the Apostles because he wanted them to be ready always, as he wants us to be ready always.
He is the Word become flesh precisely so he could suffer. Please, Catholics, check your Catechisms or Canon Law before you post things you’re not sure of. A lot of non-Catholics read these boards. We have to have our facts straight and our stuff together.
[/quote]

Wait a minute. In Matthew 24:36 Jesus says “of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father ONLY”

If Jesus knew and said that He didn’t, that means He LIED to us. If He lied to us about this, then it is possible that He could have lied to us about other things and since we have no way of knowing what those other things might be, then that places our ENTIRE faith into question not knowing what else might have been lies.

I don’t feel comfortable with that!


#11

This is a good “ask an apologist” question I have heard the explanation before, and I remember thinking O.K. that makes sense to me, but I left it there…


#12

[quote=Sir Knight]Wait a minute. In Matthew 24:36 Jesus says “of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father ONLY”

If Jesus knew and said that He didn’t, that means He LIED to us. If He lied to us about this, then it is possible that He could have lied to us about other things and since we have no way of knowing what those other things might be, then that places our ENTIRE faith into question not knowing what else might have been lies.

I don’t feel comfortable with that!
[/quote]

Not true. Jesus spoke to the people in ways they could understand. They understood the mustard seed to be the smallest seed, but it’s not. Did Jesus lie when He also said it was the smallest seed? Of course not.


#13

Jesus didn’t know because the Watch Tower wasn’t around to tell Him yet. See how simple it is?


#14

[quote=UnworthySoul]Not true. Jesus spoke to the people in ways they could understand. They understood the mustard seed to be the smallest seed, but it’s not. Did Jesus lie when He also said it was the smallest seed? Of course not.
[/quote]

It might be just me but I don’t see that as the same thing.


#15

[quote=Sir Knight]Wait a minute. In Matthew 24:36 Jesus says “of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father ONLY”
[/quote]

Hate to be the scripture Nazi, but mathew 24:36 according even to the KJV (blegh) translation states: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As we know that Jesus was one with the Father through the mystery of the Holy Trinity, we know that Jesus was also omnitient of all things in the universe. Jesus knew, what he is saying is YOU (we) cannot know the day and the time.

It makes sense too, if we all knew when our time came to die, it would be much easier to simply sin alot in comfort with every intention of trying to cheat the system right before our death. As we know, false confessions and trying to cheat the system doesnt bring true absolution, this way we must always be ready and always be holy in our hope for eternal salvation.


#16

[quote=Sir Knight]It might be just me but I don’t see that as the same thing.
[/quote]

Well, Christ did say the mustard seed was smallest, and it is not, so did He lie to them?


#17

I just checked my NAB aboiut the verse in Matthew (24:36). It says:
“But of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.”

The footnotes say: "Many textual witnesses omit *nor the Son, *which follws Mk 13, 32. Since its omission can be explained by reluctance to attribute this ignorance to the Son, the reading that includes it is probably original."
Mk 13: 32 says the same thing - the very same thing.

So, according to this footnote, it seems the transations that leave out *nor the Son *(KJV), was left out on purpose because someone took that to mean that Jesus didn’t know everything so it went against His omnipotence. The translations that do have nor the Son are probably correct. Am I understanding this correctly?

I was once told that it was because of His humanity that the Father chose not to reveal this information to Him in His human form. That’s why He spoke as He did about the Father, that he was somehow “less” than the Father - it was because of His human state. He even said as much - the Father is greater than I - I think is what He said. Therefore, if the Father is greater than Him, then I think it would be understandable that there may be a thing or two that the Father knew that Jesus did not (because of His humanity).

Don’t misunderstand, I do agree that Jesus was FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN but I also think that it was because of His humanity (which is a limitation) that He could say that the Father was greater than He was. Please don’t accuse me of heresy. I’m just trying to make sense of the passage as well with what information I’ve been given.


#18

[quote=Sir Knight]Wait a minute. In Matthew 24:36 Jesus says “of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father ONLY”

If Jesus knew and said that He didn’t, that means He LIED to us. If He lied to us about this, then it is possible that He could have lied to us about other things and since we have no way of knowing what those other things might be, then that places our ENTIRE faith into question not knowing what else might have been lies.

I don’t feel comfortable with that!
[/quote]

No, Jesus didn’t lie. Remember, he had TWO natures, God, in which he is omniscient and omnipotent and eternal, and man. As man, he was a “man like us in all things but sin.” (4th Eucharistic Prayer). He had to learn, to make mistakes, and he did not, AS MAN, have all knowledge. So when he said, “…nor the Son…” he was not lying. As man, he DID NOT KNOW. As
God, he did.
JESUS CANNOT LIE, nor did he.


#19

Mark 13, 32: “But of that day or hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

This is from an article titled “The New Nestorians (“Whether in Christ There Was Ignorance?”)”

In spite of this condemnation there arose in the late fifth century a sect of the Monophysites called Agnoetae, a Greek word meaning “not knowing,” which espoused the Nestorian doctrine of Our Lord’s ignorance. They were led by the Deacon Themistios of Alexandria, who concentrated on a passage in the Gospel of St. Mark (13:32): “But of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father.” He was resisted strongly by one of St. Cyril’s successors, St. Eulogius, who said" "Christ’s humanity which was taken up in the hypostasis of the inaccessible and substantial wisdom of Christ, cannot be ignorant of anything of the past or of the future."10 In the year 600 St. Eulogius was supported by his friend, Pope St. Gregory the Great, who wrote in the letter Sicut aquas concerning Mark 13:32: “And so the knowledge He did not have according to His human nature, which made Him, like the angels, a creature, this knowledge along with the angels who are creatures, He said He did not have. Therefore He who is God and man knows the day and the hour of judgment; but the reason for this is because God is man. But the issue is most manifest, for whoever is not a Nestorian can nowise be an Agnoetae. For anyone who confesses the very incarnate wisdom of God, how can he say there is anything that the wisdom of God does not know? It is also written: ‘Jesus knowing that the Father had given Him all things into His hands.’ If He knows all things, assuredly He knows the day and the hour of judgment; therefore who is so foolish as to say that the Son received into His hands what He was ignorant of?”

If someone is interested in, I can write down the link to this article of 34 pages.


#20

Well, The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus know all, as he is a divine person.

Please read CCC, John Paul II Catechesis on the Creed, also check out Fr William Most and Father John Hardon, and Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Dr. Ludwig Ott.

PS When one says (based upon reading the bible) that Jesus didn’t know when the Last Judgement will be, then that person gives a perfect example of why we Catholics are blessed with the gift of the magisterium, and why individual interpretation (to determine doctrine) of the Bible is wrong.


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