So sad that so many here believe that one cannot support those of another faith without standing firm in their own. I told my daughter today that the nicest people at the Catholic forums are the Mormons…go figure…
I am not naive, stupid, full of airs or hoodwinked. THe lack of tolerance among the majority of Catholics here - who say they are Christian - is truely sad.
I will not be participating (much to the relief of more than a couple of you I am sure;) ) in these forums anymore. I thought it would include intelligent discussion - not slurs and accusations and arguments based on assumptions not fact.
I participate on several religious forums, and I agree that here, rather than discuss issues, there does seem to be a tendency to discuss “people”.
Many times, I will get involved in a discussion, offer my thoughts or opinions on the topic, and rather than respond to my post, people begin to respond to me. Focus on the fact that I am of another faith, malign my faith so as to try to make me appear dumb, drag in things I’ve posted on other topics on other unrelated threads, or rather than reply to my post, change the topic, to draw attention to something else, and then if I respond to the change in topic…they accuse me of being off topic and “apologize” that they can no longer discuss with me, because now…I’m off topic.
I’ve had people ask my opinion, then ignore my comments because they were getting too close to the bone, and have had people outright lie, posting that I said, this or that on another thread…when I wasn’t even involved in the thread they were speaking of.
The tendency does seem to be…ask a question…but when a Non Catholic says something that appears too sensible, or is hard to refute with the standard answers…change the subject, or find unrelated ways to malign the Non Catholic poster. This is a pattern on the Non Catholic forum. Not just something that happens against myself, not something that only one person does.
There are many great people here on these forums. Not everyone plays dirty, but there are a couple of handfuls of regulars who are out to “bait” the Non Catholics. I find that very frustrating, because they disrupt some really fine, interesting, educational discussions with their nonsense.
I have regularly asked a sincere question about an issue, had a few people offer me some great insight, only to have the thread hijacked by someone who felt the need to start arguing pantheism with me…when pantheism was not the issue and had nothing to do with anything. It is as if they don’t want intelligent discussion and exchange of ideas to take place.
To some people, everything is a fight. They feel the need to defend their faith, even when it is not being attacked.
I think that part of the issue (as I have mentioned in one or two posts) is that many Catholics are more worried about the letter of the law than of the spirit of the law. We’re all sinners, and it is important that we hold our own accountable for their lack of charity (an extremely important virtue). Whether or not they heed our accountability, that is their decision. I know I have been demeaning a few times, but as most on this forum, I feel that those who are being attacked by most need defending (not just posters, but those who threads are about).
Honestly, I am less worried about the “lack of charity” than I am about other issues involved here. Yeah, some people are mean, it’s not pleasant, but it is clear to everyone reading a thread who the meaney is, they basically make themselves look bad.
I don’t think that some of the Catholics who post on this forum think about how they are presenting the faith they hold so dear. Some of the tactics really come off as making the Church look bad. When they avoid answering a straight question and turn to maligning the seeker on an unrelated matter…all the other Catholics look and and nod knowingly…“they don’t have a good answer…”. How do I know? I get lots of PM’s from others. When they change the subject or ignore heartfelt posts…yeah…doesn’t look good for the faith.
It is OK to say…this is my opinion, understanding…or “I don’t know”, or just, “I never thought about that…I’ll have to mull it over.” gives me much more respect for the poster and their faith, than when they go off on my or another poster or play, let’s mudsling.
There does seem to be, at least on this site, a desperate need to have a totally waterproof Catholic anwer/refute for everything, and in lieu of that…it’s ok to do anything necessary to make the other guy look bad.
It comes across as fear. Fear that if a person can’t answer everything right away…either the person is a failed Catholic, or the Catholic church isn’t all it’s chalked up to be. Everything is seen as an attack. Every question is viewed with suspicion. I am repeatedly accused of only being here to try to convert Catholics away from the Church, because “why else would a non Catholic come here?”
Some people really do just like to discuss religion, and come to better understandings of how and why people believe as they do.
And frankly, I had more respect for Catholicism (I was raised Catholic) before I started hanging out at these forums. When I read threads that tear down, make fun and misrepresent other faiths…it makes me sick. I am not talking about threads that discuss belief issues of different faiths. There are ways to debate issues that are not demeaning, that is a fine thing. But there are so many threads that are just…wrong, mean, etc, that yes, I’ve lost a great deal of my respect for Catholicism.
This is mostly concerning the Non Catholic forums. There are other forums at CAF that I don’t see this type of thing taking place at all.
I haven’t been looking at these forums for very long, maybe six months, but, from what I’ve seen so far, mostly they are quite well-behaved compared to others I’ve seen and in which I’ve participated.
Those non-Catholics who feel oppressed here might do well to remember that this is a Catholic forum. They should expect that non-Catholic points of view would elicit strong responses. Defense of the Faith is something that should be done with vigor, IMO. Thick skins are in order. Armor, even.
By all means, defend your faith with vigor, and treat guests with love.
I have NO ISSUES with people defending, explaining, praising their faith.
Making fun of other people, and other faiths does NOTHING to further the cause of Catholicism.
I don’t care how bad anyone acts on another forum. That does not justify bad behavior here. That is the “excuse” that is trotted out every time this subject comes up here. “Well, on other forums people are even worse.” or “What do non Catholics expect…after all, it’s a Catholic forum”
We expect you to show us what your faith is really about, and how it transforms the lives of its believers and practicers.
Catholicism claims to have the truth, and live the truth. Show me. If you have a light, let it shine. I have met some people here that have been a real inspiration to me by their faith and behavior…and many of them have been non Catholics.
Show me the fruit of the Real Presence in your lives. Share the truth that we might all be transformed by it. When I find more love, intelligence and helpfullness on pagan boards…how do you think that will influence me?
It’s your board, your opportunity to shine for Christ. Maybe think twice before you hit “submit reply”…if not for yourself, for the faith you seek to defend.
Because this is a forum for non catholic beliefs, all the more reason to take time to be the best you can be, to help those who don’t share your faith wonder where you get your patience, thoughtfulness, honesty, humility, etc. etc.
I am speaking here in love. I don’t come here to attack the Catholic faith. I really don’t think many of the Catholic posters here are aware of how they present Catholicism to the already skeptical non Catholics who come here. Some of the people who shout the loudest about “defending” the Faith are doing the most harm with the tactics they use.
I was raised Catholic. I know that the excuse of how others behave elsewhere is NEVER an excuse. Offer it up for the poor souls and be better than everyone else, even when it’s hard, even when it hurts, even when you are misrepresented, maligned, and people say evil about you. Stay the course.
That is one of the fine things I learned as a Catholic that I try to live everyday. And it is way hard. but don’t justify bad behavior, but rather encourage your brother toward better behavior.
no tolerance becuase people are pointing out the double talk and inaccuracies of the LDS temple;)
:rolleyes: slurs & accustaions based on assupmtions not facts?
Hmm…I think several of the posters on the mormon topic threads have pointed out the error of this thinking…as many that post are EX-MORMONS! They know what they are talking about in regards to what the LDS do, practice, believe!
I posted this in the “Thanksgiving at my wife’s Mormon ward” thread but it seems it would apply here in greater strength.
I have lived amongst Mormons for some time now, and I can attest to being treated badly by individuals. Yet who am I to judge an entire church based on the flagrant actions (actions that are against their own church I might add) of individuals I have unfortunately had to encounter. Yet on what you Americans call “the flip-side” I have experienced genuine friendship and have great relationships with Mormons whom I am proud to be friends with. I have two Mormon Bishops as close friends, one of whom calls me his “Catholic Brother from another mother” and the other who reminds me every time I see him that CTR stands for, “Catholics Totally Rock.” Granted, the LDS church is very different than my own, I do not understand nor am I capable of such, yet I have been treated better by some Mormons than members of the dominant rite in my church. And yes, I am Catholic, a Maronite, but Catholic nonetheless. Before you go judging the entire Mormon population (all 12 million of them) realize that we are all sinners, no matter the church, for that is what church is for! Recognize the love of God within everybody, and recognize that you yourself are a sinner, and see where you can go from there.
To all the Mormons who have been civil on these boards, I congratulate you for being able to put up with what my people call things “below the belt.” We Lebanese have a saying, “Love truth, even when it harms you.” I am not saying Mormonism is truth, that would be against my beliefs , but I am saying keep up against those of my fellow Catholics on these boards who do not represent what their own Church teaches in regards to tolerance and mutual respect; God Bless them nonetheless.
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us sinners.
I wish you’d reconsider. I have always enjoyed your posts. They are kind, no-nonsense, and they always add to the discussion.
I agree, there are some posters who aren’t very nice at all - it’s as if they are itching for a good fight… and I think there are some posters who just have a quirky/sarcastic sense of humor that is sometimes lost on the rest of us. But the vast majority are kind & funny and are just trying to figure out God, & kids & in-laws & the worst Christmas songs ever along with life in general.
At any rate, I hope you’ll stay. I think that the CA forums are fun & interesting only because of the variety of members who post her.
(The same goes out to the other posters on this thread as well. )
“Discussions of the various questions of religion have ever been, and still are, matters of inevitable necessity, because Christianity and its dogmas have ever been, and still are, impugned by those victims of passion, prejudice, and error—the schismatic, heretic, and infidel…If angry feelings are sometimes engendered by these discussions, the fault lies with those who first raised the standard of rebellion against the authoritative teaching of the lawful pastors, whom Christ commissioned to feed his lambs and his sheep, with the bread of life and the Word of God.”
From the praface of the Doctrinal Catechism by Fr. Stephen Keenan, Imprimatur: John Cardinal McClusky
“How does it touch you who profess to be both an orthodox person and my admirer, if I am a little too sharp upon heretics, and expose their tricks before the public? You should rejoice in my invectives: otherwise, if you are vexed at them, you may be thought to be yourself a heretic.”
I wonder though if this is what the OP is talking about?? This is a Catholic forum, true. But we invite others to discuss their religions also - which is why we have a Non-Catholic sub forum, right? We can learn a bit about them… and hopefully (and more importantly in my opinion) they can learn a bit about us. But the conversation isn’t going to go very far if we call them a “heretic.”
I just want to add my two cents. I haven’t participated much in the Non-Catholic section of these forums, but I’ve noticed some of the same attitudes mentioned in the original post, but Catholic on Catholic. Posters here who disparage on another in most scathing terms over litugical matters such as style of music. People being told they are practically non-Catholic because they voted Democratic. Whippersnappers tearing down our Bishops in disrespectful ways. I, too, feel disgusted with some of what I read on these forums.
Thanks for the laugh:rotfl: ! That is the first time ANYONE has ever used me and the word “liberal” in the same sentence. I suppose for a gun toting, pro-life, die-hard Republican like myself that is quite an accomplishment;)