Enough to make me want to cohabit


#1

Between engagement rings, marriage proposals, wedding preparation classes,wedding planners, marriage licenses, expensive weddings, marital discord, separation, lawyer’s fees, divorce, property settlements, and alimony, it is enough to make me seriously consider cohabitation, rather than marriage.

Many people have a hard time with the “C” word. You might cohabit with your lover, practice cohabitation, or be a cohabitant, but you do not cohabitate. Look it up.

If others can find a satisfying and rewarding marriage, and have loads of kids, more power to them.

But I will remain unmarried and childfree, thank you, although I would consider a live-in relationship. Marriage just seems to be so very much more trouble than it is worth, at least from my viewpoint.

Do any others feel this way?


#2

With a Catholic view of marriage, there's no need at all for marital discord, separation, lawyer's fees, divorce, property settlements, or alimony. And some of the others you listed are purely choices (who says one has to have a wedding planner or an expensive wedding???).

You've basically listed off the standard features of a secular, American marriage. I feel sad that large chunks of the population have put themselves in a position where they will have to have that kind of marriage. Now a sacramental marriage, on the other hand ... it's all good! :D


#3

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
Between engagement rings, marriage proposals, wedding preparation classes,wedding planners, marriage licenses, expensive weddings, marital discord, separation, lawyer's fees, divorce, property settlements, and alimony, it is enough to make me seriously consider cohabitation, rather than marriage.

Many people have a hard time with the "C" word. You might cohabit with your lover, practice cohabitation, or be a cohabitant, but you do not cohabitate. Look it up.

If others can find a satisfying and rewarding marriage, and have loads of kids, more power to them.

But I will remain unmarried and childfree, thank you, although I would consider a live-in relationship. Marriage just seems to be so very much more trouble than it is worth, at least from my viewpoint.

Do any others feel this way?

[/quote]

Obviously there are others that feel that way or what you propose to do (or not do) would be too embarassing even to bring up. But that's what separates cafeteria Catholicism from Orthodox Catholicism.


#4

It sounds as though you have a gun aimed at your foot. I don't think anyone is going to stop you from pulling the trigger, but I do think it's fair to say it's not a good idea.

Marriage isn't a picnic, but neither is cohabitation.

I've seen that pattern played out so many times in my own life. I know how it goes. It's usually ugly and everyone involved gets hurt.

I agree with a previous poster: obviously lots of people feel this way, this is the secular view of male/female relations. It's positively odd to have an opposing view these days.

And it's garbage. It does nothing to nurture men or women or any children brought into the world. :(


#5

Gradually accept the unknown with prayer :) Have faith that God knows there will be conflicts, but great joy as well. Patience! Learn to enjoy all the time spent attemting to reach goals. God blesses marriages and your covenant with Him.

Romans 5:4

"**Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God **through our **Lord Jesus Christ,

through whom we have gained access (by faith) to this grace in which we stand, and we boast in hope of the glory of God. **

Not only that, but **we even boast of our afflictions, knowing that affliction produces endurance,

and endurance, proven character, and proven character, hope, and hope does not disappoint,

because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that

has been given to us. **

For Christ, while we were still helpless, yet died at the appointed time for the ungodly.


#6

Cohabitate. It's really called shacking up. Don't let the other side control the language.


#7

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]

But I will remain unmarried and childfree, thank you, although I would consider a live-in relationship. Marriage just seems to be so very much more trouble than it is worth, at least from my viewpoint.
Do any others feel this way?

[/quote]

If you feel that pursuing a serious relationship with someone of the opposite sex, getting to know him or her and supporting him through life's trials and joys, is not worth effort, then okay. But that is a fairly adolescent point of view.
Cohabitation doesn't work. When you have a quick out, no excuse to stay around, you will be more likely to break up the relationship at any small disagreement, rather than sticking around and working things out, thereby growing in maturity and holiness. The purpose of marriage is to help one another achieve heaven.


#8

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
Between engagement rings, marriage proposals, wedding preparation classes,wedding planners, marriage licenses, expensive weddings, marital discord, separation, lawyer's fees, divorce, property settlements, and alimony, it is enough to make me seriously consider cohabitation, rather than marriage.

[/quote]

of all these the only thing strictly required for a valid wedding is the license, which here is about $45. If you can't afford that you cannot afford to live with anyone, much less marry. I think the lady would be pleased with a proposal, and it is insanity to attempt something this serious without preparation. Here, all told including the preparation class you can marry in the Catholic Church for less than $200.

If you want the rest of those things in your future that all come with divorce, then yes by all means cohabit, and with it artificial contraception, as this virtually assures divorce should you every marry. If you wish to beat the odds and astronomically increase your chances of a long happy marriage without prospect of divorce, avoid premarital sex like the plague and never use contraception.

Your basic assumption that cohabitation leaves you free of any entanglements is false. Do you think ending such an arrangement, and it will end, even if it lasts only a short time, is without pain and lasting damage on many levels? then you are dreaming.


#9

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
Between engagement rings, marriage proposals, wedding preparation classes,wedding planners, marriage licenses, expensive weddings, marital discord, separation, lawyer's fees, divorce, property settlements, and alimony, it is enough to make me seriously consider cohabitation, rather than marriage.

Many people have a hard time with the "C" word. You might cohabit with your lover, practice cohabitation, or be a cohabitant, but you do not cohabitate. Look it up.

If others can find a satisfying and rewarding marriage, and have loads of kids, more power to them.

But I will remain unmarried and childfree, thank you, although I would consider a live-in relationship. Marriage just seems to be so very much more trouble than it is worth, at least from my viewpoint.

Do any others feel this way?

[/quote]

Just u wait till Cupid comes a visiting.
U will be sining a different tune then!
Wish I could be there to tell you " told ya "!


#10

You talk about cohabitation as if none of us here know what it is or have experienced it. Not all here are Catholic, cradle Catholics and many have come back to the church. I happen to be one of those who fell away but came back. I know a little something about "shacking up."

I have another "C" word for you. . . commitment. Something that two people who enter into a sacramental marriage have. Two people who live together don't necessarily have that . . . they can fight, walk out the door and learn nothing except how to quit. My job is to get my DH to heaven. That was my promise to God on the day we married in His house.

As others before me have pointed out, the money spent and the time and effort to get married and to have your wedding is an individual choice. The only person you SHOULD invite to your wedding is God. You won't get a toaster from Him, but there are other more important things to be gained from Him! ;)

If you decide not to marry and not have children, then that is fine. Cohabitation in place of marriage cannot be. Nothing replaces the sacrament of marriage. Good luck and God Bless. :)


#11

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
Between engagement rings, marriage proposals, wedding preparation classes,wedding planners, marriage licenses, expensive weddings, marital discord, separation, lawyer's fees, divorce, property settlements, and alimony, it is enough to make me seriously consider cohabitation, rather than marriage........remain unmarried and childfree, thank you, although I would consider a live-in relationship.

Do any others feel this way?

[/quote]

Just in case you hadn't heard..... the inconvenient technicalities about "thou shalt not commit adultery" and "going to Hell" have NOT been abrogated, despite apparently widespread misunderstanding in recent times. Is getting sexual pleasure really worth it?

As someone else has remarked, such things as wedding planners and big weddings are NOT required, and divorce is evitable. Concern about these financial issues ought not lead one into a deliberate path of sin.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.


#12

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]

Do any others feel this way?

[/quote]

I don't.


#13

Admittedly, I am one girlfriend short of the opportunity for cohabitation. So it won't be happening anytime soon. OK, I have lived alone for decades.

Marriage scares me. I find it horribly frightening. From childhood, I knew marriage was not for me.

Especially for men, marriage now seems to be a bad bargain. Not a good thing at all.

This is a free country, though, and everyone gets to decide for themselves.


#14

everyone is addressing the sin of cohabitation. I'd like to address your fear of marriage.

Our society has made marriage a negative thing - like it's some kind of disease. It's a shame b/c many people will grow old with no children and family to surround them.

I dated MANY men who felt the same way you did. Some of them are now happily married and some of them are now divorced. Some are in the 40's and dancing around like Peter Pan and it looks really tacky.

Marriage is a gamble and to win big, you have to play big...put in all your chips and take a gamble on someone you love. You'll either win huge or lose huge. That's just the way life is. When you don't marry them, you're telling them that they are ok to live with, but not special enough to marry. This puts a subconscious wedge in the relationship. Resentment and bitterness will build up and small issues will become bigger issues and b/c there's no committment, the one that feels the rejection will most likely leave. I've seen it happen many times.

My marriage is very good. We get along 80% of the time. We have a close friendship and it's the memories of our good friendship that gets us through hard times. Once the hard time is over, we're closer than we were before and the bond is stronger. That's marriage. I wouldnt' trade it for ANYTHING!!!

We lived together for 3 years b4 marriage and I was the one building up the resentment that he wasn't married to me. I felt unloved and rejected. I almost left him and he realized that he was going to lose me. Cohabitation can create a lot of confusion b/c one person always ends up wanting more. Marriage is still important at the end of the day.

Satan offers money, riches, women, sex, porn, parties, indulgence...this life can be very attractive to many. What about living this life at 50? at 60?

So you live with someone. You think perfect; I can get out easily. When you live with someone, the odds you'll separate are 80%. When you're married, the odds are 50%. But if you get married for the first time, and are over 35, the odds go down to 40% if you cohabitated and 30% if you didn't cohabitate.


#15

[quote="Serap, post:14, topic:213062"]
When you live with someone, the odds you'll separate are 80%. When you're married, the odds are 50%. But if you get married for the first time, and are over 35, the odds go down to 40% if you cohabitated and 30% if you didn't cohabitate.

[/quote]

I'd like to add one step. If you get believe in the Catholic view of sacramental marriage, don't live together before marriage, don't have pre-martial sex (or if you already have, STOP, leading up to your marriage), and don't use artificial birth control, the odds of divorce go down to, what, 10%? 5%? 2%? Whatever it is, it's ridiculously low.

OP, you seem to view marriage as a contract - just a civil arrangement. Get a few books explaining the Catholic view of marriage - that of a sacrament between you, your wife, and God. It will blow your mind and change your life. It did mine (and yes, I have shacked up w/ a girlfriend earlier in my atheistic days, so I know about that path, too).

Another problem with shacking up is legal and financial. You agree to all of these financial arrangements, but the force of law doesn't back them up. I listen to a financial call-in radio show regularly and day after day women call in talking about how they lived with their boyfriend, they co-signed on all kinds of financial arrangements (car, credit cards), and now the boyfriend has walked out and left them to cover all of the debt. Both are fully liable and when the man disappears, the collectors will rightfully hold the woman responsible for it all. OP, you said marriage is a bad bargain for men. Well, I'd say cohabitating is a horrible bargain for women.


#16

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
Between engagement rings, marriage proposals, wedding preparation classes,wedding planners, marriage licenses, expensive weddings, marital discord, separation, lawyer's fees, divorce, property settlements, and alimony, it is enough to make me seriously consider cohabitation, rather than marriage.

Many people have a hard time with the "C" word. You might cohabit with your lover, practice cohabitation, or be a cohabitant, but you do not cohabitate. Look it up.

If others can find a satisfying and rewarding marriage, and have loads of kids, more power to them.

But I will remain unmarried and childfree, thank you, although I would consider a live-in relationship. Marriage just seems to be so very much more trouble than it is worth, at least from my viewpoint.

Do any others feel this way?

[/quote]

If you do decide to cohabitate, I truly hope that you are just as honest as you are in this post as you will be with the girl you choose to live with. If you truly do not believe in the sacrament of marriage, make sure the woman absolutely knows the exact way you feel about it all or you are deceiving her and even living together won't work out and you'll have only yourself to blame for that, but I bet you'll blame it on something else.


#17

Why is that a shame?


#18

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
Between engagement rings, marriage proposals, wedding preparation classes,wedding planners, marriage licenses, expensive weddings, marital discord, separation, lawyer's fees, divorce, property settlements, and alimony, it is enough to make me seriously consider cohabitation, rather than marriage.

[/quote]

Exactly one of these things is in any way relevant to the Sacrament of Marriage: a marriage license.

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
If others can find a satisfying and rewarding marriage, and have loads of kids, more power to them.

[/quote]

Those who are Catholic and seeking a life of grace and holiness do have "more power to them." Specifically, the power of the Holy Spirit operating through Sacramental Grace.

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
But I will remain unmarried and childfree, thank you,

[/quote]

Well, that says quite a bit about you and your spiritual life all in one small sentence.

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
although I would consider a live-in relationship. Marriage just seems to be so very much more trouble than it is worth, at least from my viewpoint.

[/quote]

And this says even more about your knowledge of the Catholic faith, sin, grace, and sanctification.

[quote="Magickman, post:1, topic:213062"]
Do any others feel this way?

[/quote]

I suppose many people who reject Christ's teaching and his grace do feel this way.


#19

[quote="Magickman, post:13, topic:213062"]
Admittedly, I am one girlfriend short of the opportunity for cohabitation. So it won't be happening anytime soon. OK, I have lived alone for decades.

Marriage scares me. I find it horribly frightening. From childhood, I knew marriage was not for me.

Especially for men, marriage now seems to be a bad bargain. Not a good thing at all.

This is a free country, though, and everyone gets to decide for themselves.

[/quote]

Marriage is only bad for men because most men in the US are pretty worthless as men. I've heard the quote, "The average modern American male between the ages of 18-25 only excels at two things, playing video games and masturbating." Now this quote goes a little far, but if men were men in this country, leading and guiding their families with strength and a firm creed, I guarantee the divorce rate wouldn't be 50% or higher. I know it's my opinion, but there it is.

If you knew from childhood that marriage wasn't for you, then why not remain celibate rather than risking your soul? What is it if you gain the whole world but lose your soul in the gaining? We studied cohabitation in college. Cohabitation rarely brings about lasting relationships because there is no commitment. Couples need commitments to bind them through the hard times. Not wanting to face the hardships of marriage indicates a lack of courage. Marriage is only for the brave at heart. And because the modern American is in essence, a selfish coward (just look at the fruits of our labors for evidence), marriages continue to fail in ever increasing rates.

PS: I went to a secular university (WVU), so our studies were quite unbiased regarding cohabitation. My degree is in Social Work (one of the most liberal degrees you can get, thanks be to God that I didn't give in to their ideology).


#20

It's childLESS not childFREE.

magickman, you've made it clear many times with threads on this very topic that you don't want to be married. Fine! Why keep rehashing it here? All the times you've brought it up doesn't seem to have made you feel any better about it, or more secure in your assertions about marriage.

Do you want to convince yourself? Or do you want everyone else to agree with you that marriage is some horrible and inconvenient thing, so that you can feel better about it?

If you know marriage isn't for you, then leave it at that and go find your vocation. I truly hope you can find it, and some peace, becasue you are obviously seeking something desperately. That can't be a very happy place to be in in life. Prayers for you.


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