Episcopal church worshipping pagan gods?


#1

Has anyone else come across this article from Christianity Today?

It talks about something on the official church website that describes the liturgy of a ceremony that would appear to be similar to pagan practices specifically condemned in scripture!

This amazes me! I suppose it was only a matter of time what with the Episcopal church throwing out biblical doctrine after biblical doctrine (ordaining women, accepting and celebrating homosexuality, etc.)

Has anyone heard more about this obviously creepy ceremony?


#2

[quote=bhanifan]Has anyone else come across this article from Christianity Today?

It talks about something on the official church website that describes the liturgy of a ceremony that would appear to be similar to pagan practices specifically condemned in scripture!

This amazes me! I suppose it was only a matter of time what with the Episcopal church throwing out biblical doctrine after biblical doctrine (ordaining women, accepting and celebrating homosexuality, etc.)

Has anyone heard more about this obviously creepy ceremony?
[/quote]

Yes. It’s a logical outgrowth of what ECUSA has become. They seem to be taking their liturgical cues from Alexander Hislop’s work.

GKC


#3

I have Anglican friends who are undoubted Christians, and are, in the midst of tremendous difficulties, struggling to hold on to that truth which they possess.

Part of the reason it is a struggle for them, it appears, is that this type of pagan syncretism is not only common in Anglican circles (the local Anglican cathedral here in Vancouver BC, hosted Buddhist meditation sessions a couple of summers ago to foster Christian spiritual growth – go figure), but no one or no structure in Anglicanism can effectively do anything about developments like this.

The Episcopal Church, USA, is no more far gone than the local Anglicans in these parts, who recently invited Matthew Fox to one of their larger parishes, to lead them in sessions to enrich their “spirituality.”

Blesings,

Gerry


#4

[quote=Gerry Hunter]I have Anglican friends who are undoubted Christians, and are, in the midst of tremendous difficulties, struggling to hold on to that truth which they possess.

Part of the reason it is a struggle for them, it appears, is that this type of pagan syncretism is not only common in Anglican circles (the local Anglican cathedral here in Vancouver BC, hosted Buddhist meditation sessions a couple of summers ago to foster Christian spiritual growth – go figure), but no one or no structure in Anglicanism can effectively do anything about developments like this.

The Episcopal Church, USA, is no more far gone than the local Anglicans in these parts, who recently invited Matthew Fox to one of their larger parishes, to lead them in sessions to enrich their “spirituality.”

Blesings,

Gerry
[/quote]

Yes, I left the Episcopal Church before the gay union blessings and gay bishops. I’m glad I did.


#5

Interestingly enough, the “liturgy” link on the Episcopal page is now a dead link. It used to be:

episcopalchurch.org/41685_52038_ENG_HTM.htm

and was part of the Episcopal Church Women’s Ministries postings. Methinks they may have run and hid after the publicity.

It was a virtual carbon copy of the liturgy on a druid site:

http://www.tuathadebrighid.org/mother.htm

But hey, if you’re into wacky liturgy, the same outfit also has a “Liturgy for Divorce.” :whacky: I’m not making this up; it’s at:

episcopalchurch.org/41685_51008_ENG_HTM.htm

So far, that link is still alive, although the site is getting a lot of attention on lists frequented by Christian Anglicans.

If anyone’s really curious, I have both “liturgies” on my hard drive, and will forward them on request. But edifying they are not, be warned. :nope:

Blessings,

Gerry


#6

[quote=Gerry Hunter]Interestingly enough, the “liturgy” link on the Episcopal page is now a dead link. It used to be:

episcopalchurch.org/41685_52038_ENG_HTM.htm

and was part of the Episcopal Church Women’s Ministries postings. Methinks they may have run and hid after the publicity.

It was a virtual carbon copy of the liturgy on a druid site:

tuathadebrighid.org/mother.htm

But hey, if you’re into wacky liturgy, the same outfit also has a “Liturgy for Divorce.” :whacky: I’m not making this up; it’s at:

episcopalchurch.org/41685_51008_ENG_HTM.htm

So far, that link is still alive, although the site is getting a lot of attention on lists frequented by Christian Anglicans.

If anyone’s really curious, I have both “liturgies” on my hard drive, and will forward them on request. But edifying they are not, be warned. :nope:

Blessings,

Gerry
[/quote]

episcopalchurch.org/3577_53352_ENG_HTM.htm

It worked for me - all I had to do was paste the relevant paragraph into my browaser, and it come up with it

This reminds me of some of the stuff Donna Steichen mentioned in her book “Unholy Rage”: this sort of thing is anything but an ECUSA peculiarity; it’s not unknown among Catholics :frowning: :bigyikes:

In fairness to the women, I didn’t see much to do with “gods” - just an interpretation of what the cakes meant. ##


#7

“It was a virtual carbon copy of the liturgy on a druid site:…”

As I understand it, that was because the author of the Druid piece, and the Episcopal female in collar responsible for it being on the Episcopal site were one and the same: an ECUSA lady in vestments, who doubled as a Druid, as did her ECUSA priest husband. Inclusive and pluriform, you know.

All could be net gossip, but I have seen back up references.

GKC


#8

That does it. I’m writing a letter to the church office.


#9

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## episcopalchurch.org/3577_53352_ENG_HTM.htm

It worked for me - all I had to do was paste the relevant paragraph into my browaser, and it come up with it

[/quote]

That link got me to a call for resources page. It’s not the link to the “liturgy.”

And oh yes, there are liturgical abuses in the Church, but there’s also structures to deal with them.

Blessings,

Gerry


#10

don’t hyperventilate. they have problems with liturgical abuses like we do, and they have all kinds of “official” websites that may or may not speak for their entire Church. the trouble is they do not have any central authority worldwide, nationally or within a diocese, so they have a lot more leeway than Catholics do within their own jurisdiction. You can find any of these abuses cited being promoted somewhere by some “Catholic” parish, college, religious order, magazine, website, bishop, nun, priest, or laypeople, all using the name “Catholic” to justify what they are doing and misleading the innocent among the faithful.


#11

[quote=puzzleannie]don’t hyperventilate. they have problems with liturgical abuses like we do, and they have all kinds of “official” websites that may or may not speak for their entire Church. the trouble is they do not have any central authority worldwide, nationally or within a diocese, so they have a lot more leeway than Catholics do within their own jurisdiction. You can find any of these abuses cited being promoted somewhere by some “Catholic” parish, college, religious order, magazine, website, bishop, nun, priest, or laypeople, all using the name “Catholic” to justify what they are doing and misleading the innocent among the faithful.
[/quote]

I’m afraid that nifty litany was listed as a “resource” on the Episcopal Church in America website. Where it was right at home.There is still a keen "Liturgy for Divorce " up there, on the Women’s Resource page.

GKC.


#12

[quote=GKC]I’m afraid that nifty litany was listed as a “resource” on the Episcopal Church in America website. Where it was right at home.There is still a keen "Liturgy for Divorce " up there, on the Women’s Resource page.

GKC.
[/quote]

Actually, you (GKC) and Annie both have points. I’ll admit that it’s hard to explain it being posted on the Church website, but that doesn’t imply that that it is an approved liturgy for use in the church. Don’t get me wrong; I’ll admit that both (the liturgy for divorce or the druid thingy) are way out there. It’s just that there are lots of proposed liturgies- people sometimes compose them more or less like poems. It’s when priests perform these unauthorized liturgies without approval from the bishops (or, IMHO, what’s worse is with their bishop’s approval, but against the wishes of the church) that these things get really ugly.


#13

Back in the 1970s and 1980s when all of this stuff was being planted, all the “best” mad feminist theologians were Catholic. I attended a liturgy, billed as a “Mass,” celebrated by a Catholic nun which included prayers to “God our Mother” and represented the cup as “the menstrual blood of the world” or some such nonsense. The liturgy was in an Episcopal setting at a conference on the proposed consecration of women bishops.

Anybody interested in the kind of “theology” that leads to this sort of liturgy needs to read William Oddie’s now out-of-print book, What Will Happen to God? It is a brief summary of the major positions on feminist theology up to 1988. Take your blood pressure pills before you open it.


#14

[quote=mercygate]Back in the 1970s and 1980s when all of this stuff was being planted, all the “best” mad feminist theologians were Catholic. I attended a liturgy, billed as a “Mass,” celebrated by a Catholic nun which included prayers to “God our Mother” and represented the cup as “the menstrual blood of the world” or some such nonsense. The liturgy was in an Episcopal setting at a conference on the proposed consecration of women bishops.

Anybody interested in the kind of “theology” that leads to this sort of liturgy needs to read William Oddie’s now out-of-print book, What Will Happen to God? It is a brief summary of the major positions on feminist theology up to 1988. Take your blood pressure pills before you open it.

[/quote]

Yep. Read it.

GKC


#15

[quote=mean_owen]Actually, you (GKC) and Annie both have points. I’ll admit that it’s hard to explain it being posted on the Church website, but that doesn’t imply that that it is an approved liturgy for use in the church. Don’t get me wrong; I’ll admit that both (the liturgy for divorce or the druid thingy) are way out there. It’s just that there are lots of proposed liturgies- people sometimes compose them more or less like poems. It’s when priests perform these unauthorized liturgies without approval from the bishops (or, IMHO, what’s worse is with their bishop’s approval, but against the wishes of the church) that these things get really ugly.
[/quote]

Oh, I didn’t mean that it was likely to show up as Rite Next Number in the next Prayer Book. It was a “suggested resource” that might be used, I guess, on the feast day of the “Queen of Heaven” (that’s not the BVM), by people who might use such things.

I think the “Liturgy of Divorce” has gone into the Memory Hole, too.

GKC


#16

Well it appears that they’ve cleaned up the website. Notice their reasoning for getting rid of the Druidic liturgy though!

“We regret we did not realize that the material was copyright protected.”

LOL!!! They regret that someone else came up with this liturgy and copyrighted it before the episcopal church got to it. Well, maybe next time you’ll be the first to find a new way to offend God and copyright the text before those wacky druid types eh?


#17

One of my main reasons for mentioning this topic is the sad, sad fact (pointed out by others on this topic) that what happens in the episcopal church (and other churches as well) is not too far ahead of what many wish to do in the Catholic Church.

Luckily you should never see any of the liturgical abuses being linked as resources at www.vatican.va in our case though.


#18

If you have written or are interested in writing liturgies pertaining to women’s lives please send them to the Office of Women’s Ministries: 815 Second Avenue, New York, NY,

So you can just write your own liturgy??


#19

[quote=drforjc]So you can just write your own liturgy??
[/quote]

Sure! Heck some Catholic priests, bishops, and laypeople have been doing it for years! Of course the vatican didn’t place an email on their website asking for such things, but it happened at the local level at times. So I suppose the episcopals are just leaping ahead of the curve on this one.


#20

[quote=bhanifan]Well it appears that they’ve cleaned up the website. Notice their reasoning for getting rid of the Druidic liturgy though!

“We regret we did not realize that the material was copyright protected.”

LOL!!! They regret that someone else came up with this liturgy and copyrighted it before the episcopal church got to it. Well, maybe next time you’ll be the first to find a new way to offend God and copyright the text before those wacky druid types eh?
[/quote]

Which is likely merely spin control effort. The “druidess” who wrote the thing, and the “priestess” who submitted it to the ECUSA site, are the same person, I have read. Apparently, she and her likewise inclined hubby (druid/Anglican priest) have been active in both ECUSA and druidic circles. Thus circulates the scuttlebutt lately, anyway.

GKC


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