Estelle Getty died at eighty four

:frowning: Estelle Getty (Sophia from “The Golden Girls”) passed away today! That makes me sad. She was easily my favorite from the show. :frowning: Pray for her that she is in Heaven, with God right now.

It’s too late to pray for her, but we can certainly pray for her family.

How wrong you are JoeBlow…I have no idea if Estelle Getty believed in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ but she will definitely be in my prayers.

She’s dead.

She’s either in Heaven, in which case she no longer needs our prayers, or she’s in Hell, in which case no prayer will help.

You are forgetting about Purgatory my separated brother in Christ…Heres some verses that get into it in case you were wondering…

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, “be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and “under the earth” which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the “prison.” These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol,” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

Reference: scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

There is no Purgatory, my heretical friend.

YOU are forgetting, my beloved separated brother, that God is beyond time - ‘a thousand years with the Lord are as a single day, a day as a thousand years’.

And that before He even formed Ms Getty (I loved her in the Golden Girls too) in the womb He not only knew her, He knew who would pray for her, both during her life and after her death, so that all of those prayers have had and perhaps will have an effect.

I have scripture to back up the Catholic position of Purgatory (I assume you follow Sola Scriptura) while you conveniently skip over the numerous biblical passages I responded with. And I’m the heretical one?

And you are forgetting, my heretical friend, that this verse has nothing to do with Purgatory.

And that before He even formed Ms Getty (I loved her in the Golden Girls too) in the womb He not only knew her, He knew who would pray for her, both during her life and after her death, so that all of those prayers have had and perhaps will have an effect.

So then, because God knew ahead of time who would ignore his word and pray for a dead person, that makes it right?

Then by all means, let’s see them.

while you conveniently skip over the numerous biblical passages I responded with.

None of them had anything to do with Purgatory.

And I’m the heretical one?

Yes. You are the heretical one.

A prayer for someone’s soul is a prayer for someone’s soul - we’re not praying just because she’s dead, there have been media reports for some time about her decline so lots of people have probably been praying well before now.

In any event no earnest prayer for our brother’s welfare, we can be sure, is wasted, even if it may be mistaken. God isn’t a bureaucrat who insists on prayers folowing the ‘correct’ procedure before hearing them. God applies it all to the good if it comes from good and Godly motives.

Please re-read all the verses I posted plus the brief description after them. It’s pretty obvious that it’s not that there isnt biblical evidence to support Purgatory, its that you dont want to believe in Purgatory because your Protestant church chooses to not believe in it when it is talked about in quite a few places in the Bible which I even posted on that previous comment. You can’t cherrypick what is church doctrine. I even went as so far to play your game and show you where it talks about it in the Bible but that didnt even convince you. Remember the church came before the Bible (not the other way around) and the church is the pillar of truth not the Bible.

1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Like I said, she’s dead. She’s either in Heaven, where your prayers are no longer needed, or she’s in Hell, where no prayer will help her.

I read them the first time.

It’s pretty obvious that it’s not that there isnt biblical evidence to support Purgatory, its that you dont want to believe in Purgatory because your Protestant church chooses to not believe in it when it is talked about in quite a few places in the Bible which I even posted on that previous comment.

It isn’t whether or not I want to believe it, it’s that it contradicts what the Bible teaches. It’s obvious that you have been so brainwashed by your religious leaders that you can’t even tell that these verses have nothing to do with the mythical land of Purgatory.

You can’t cherrypick what is church doctrine. I even went as so far to play your game and show you where it talks about it in the Bible but that didnt even convince you. Remember the church came before the Bible (not the other way around) and the church is the pillar of truth not the Bible.

Actually, the scriptures that make up the Bible came before the church.

1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Again, this has nothing to do with Purgatory.

I made this thread to remember a great actress, who passed away today, and to pray for her soul. NOT to start an argument about Purgatory! :mad: Kindly take it to another thread.

And another falsehood from Joe Blow.

It is never too late to pray.

God is the recipient of the prayers… He is outside of time and all our prayers are beneficial… for He knows all things… even if we pray after a death for the loved one, He knows that we will do…or not do so.

And all our prayers are applied as He sees fit.

oh

what am I saying… This is JoeBlow… :frowning:

May Miss Getty rest in peace. She was a delight.

Is she the first of the Golden Girls to pass on?

In spite of its occasional raunchiness, I just loved that show and still do. At the time I watched it, I was a young mom in my 30s and thought I would never be that old. Now I am the age of the Golden Girls (at least, the age of Blanche!), and the show has really influenced me, convincing me that older women are beautiful and vital!

And I agree, take the arguments to another thread. It’s in very poor taste to debate and raise controversial issues around people who are mourning. Would you do this in real life if someone announced in a group that a dear person died? Of course not. JoeBlow, this is a Catholic forum and we believe in praying for the repose of those who have passed on. If you don’t, fine, but don’t argue about it in a thread like this, in which we are eulogizing a person we admire. As a Bible-believing Christian, I know that you know the Bible says that love is the greatest virtue, and that we will know who Christ’s followers are by their love. To deliberately argue in front of grieving people is not demonstrating Christ’s love, my friend. Go to the Apologetics Section and debate to your heart’s content. (BTW, I am a convert from evangelical Protestantism, and one of the main reasons I converted was the doctrine of Purgatory.)

I couldn’t agree more, why are some posters arguing things regarding purgatory, prayers, ect…I agree we should respect Denae and stay on track…

Prayers for the late actress…

Thank you Cat. I think that Estelle was the first of the four to pass on…ironically the youngest, even though her character was the oldest…

How do you know if you are Blanche’s age or not? She was every age! Grin It was such an amazing show. It was my grandmother’s favorite show. And even now, one of my friend’s mothers will always say “picture it” before telling a story. We always roll our eyes and say “Go on Sophia.”

this may sound irreverent but she was only 84…i thought she was 84 during the show!!!

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