Eternal security and philosophy


#1

So…I was raised Baptist and was taught eternal security but since then…I converted to Catholicism…but can any of you explain to me why eternal security is rooted in bad/weird philosophy??? Thank you…


#2

In other words “once saved always saved?”
We believe that God creates us for relationship, and that relationships take work, the work of love. So salvation is not a magic pill or innoculation. God’s saving grace asks for response, and asks for continual response.
A person is certainly capable of rejecting God at any time.


#3

Unlike the angels, whose will is so strong that they are unable to change their minds, humans have the capacity to change their minds or opinions in this way. If an angel wills something, he cannot change his mind, which is why the fallen angels cannot repent. Human beings on earth, however, are subject to time and space, so decisions can be retracted. Just as one can sin after repenting, one can certainly lose the state of grace.


#4

St Paul said it best:
‘Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling’ - Philippians 2:12
St Paul advises us against feeling secured in our salvation.


#5

Try these…

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/where-is-eternal-security-in-the-bible-hint-nowhere

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/answering-arguments-for-eternal-security

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/john-316-and-eternal-security

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-great-eternal-security-debate

Welcome Home.

Hope these help,

God Bless


#6

Because God, alone, knows with 100% certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life. Its arrogant to presume that we have this knowledge, or that we can know it regarding ourselves, in light of our human limitations, weaknesses, and sin. We can have a certain level of assurance, based on our fruits, but not absolute certainty.


#7

https://www.catholic.com/tract/assurance-of-salvation
We can have confidence by The Holy Spirit of solemnly cooperating with Grace,
with diligence; which doesn’t ‘puff up.’
Yes, Paul the Apostle gave much exhortation for continued diligence;
because of the possibility of loosing sight of God’s Grace with a presumptive attitude;
like ‘once saved always saved.’
But he did fight the good fight and had a blessed assurance at the end of his life.
"“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day.” - 2 Timothy 4:7-8
It seems he grew more confident as Grace imputed more habitual Godly thinking,
words, and actions by due diligence as his life progressed.


#8

for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:13 ESV

From the same book you quoted:

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Philippians 1:6 ESV

If that’s not assurance then I don’t know what is. Paul starts a few of his letters this way:

who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:8 ESV

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:13‭-‬14 ESV


#9

Three of the sacraments of the Church imprint an indelible character, mark, or seal on the soul, namely, baptism, confirmation, and holy orders and so these sacraments can only be received once. However, the character or seal is not the same thing as sanctifying grace or charity which are lost by mortal sin though the indelible marks are not. Thus, to be restored to God’s favor after committing a mortal sin even though we may have the seals of baptism and confirmation on our soul, we have to go to the sacrament of penance which is ‘a second plank after shipwreck’.


#10

The seal is the guarantee of our inheritance. Can you please define guarantee and also define what Paul is referring to when he says inheritance?


#11

[quote=“dronald, post:10, topic:523475, full:true”]

The seal is the guarantee of our inheritance.

If you want to call the seal the Holy Spirit himself than in this sense He is the guarantee or our inheritance as St Paul says in the passage ’ were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance’. But the Holy Spirit dwells in the souls of the just as ‘the guarantee of our inheritance’ through sanctifying grace and charity where I believe it is St Paul who says in another place that ‘the love of God is poured forth in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who is given to us’.

The word ‘sealed’ in the passage from Ephesians could also mean the spiritual mark we receive from the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of confirmation. In this sense, the spiritual mark is not the Holy Spirit but a created supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit that he imprints on our soul, a created spiritual power according to St Thomas Aquinas. As I said previously also, the indelible spiritual mark from the three sacraments is not the same thing as sanctifying grace or charity either which is clear from the fact that we lose the gifts of sanctifying grace and charity in mortal sin but not the indelible mark.

Can you please define guarantee and also define what Paul is referring to when he says inheritance?

The Holy Spirit dwells in a special manner in souls in the state of grace through the supernatural theological gift of charity so that this indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the ‘guarantee’ of our inheritance, namely, of eternal life with Christ on high.


#12

I don’t want to call the holy spirit the seal of our inheritance; Scripture calls Him that.

I suppose this is where we differ greatly. I take the text at face value and I do not try to add a special interpretation to it. The seal is the holy spirit, not some creation that He created. Read the passage again; it should be clear.

The guarantee is eternal life, yes. But guarantee means guarantee. Those who are sealed with the Holy Spirit are guarenteed eternal life.


#13

We live in a state of becoming.

Eternity entered time and space in the Person of Christ. But we need signs to know it and in those we have faith.

Just as someone who is eternally damned is not visible to us neither is someone saved.

To know that one is eternally secure a sign would be required and in that we could only have faith. A kind of catch 22.

The only eternal reality that is visible to us is death.


#15

It is interesting to me that we say this and yet recently at the Catholic graveside service the priest spoke to the family that now Pete (a carpenter), is living in a mansion he did not have to build but is there because he earned it. Isn’t that saying visibly Pete was saved?


#16

It’s an expression of hope, at best, and perhaps reasonable certainty. But it is not a dogmatic pronunciation. I can appreciate words of reassurance, but tbh I want the priest at my funeral to be telling people to pray to God to have mercy on me. Not because I see myself as particularly bad… but unless I’m somehow promoted to sainthood I’d appreciate any such prayers.


#17

It just occurred to me that perhaps he had received the Last Rites, which if I am correct would mean that all his sins were forgiven and he would bypass Purgatory?


#18

Last Rites would be a near guarantee he died in a state of grace, so far as I understand it (assuming he intentionally held nothing mortal back during confession). Last Rites don’t in themselves remove a person’s attachment to certain sins or remove unresolved temporal penance due, so it’s not a way to bypass any purgation/purification after death, though.


#19

These all make perfect sense when viewed from a perspective of a belief in reincarnation.


#20

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