Eternal Security vs. Conditional Security


#1

I have been raised on the doctrine of Eternal Security and my church teaches it. yet, when I read the words of the Church Fathers regarding conditional security, the Devil, the evil one whom I can feel in my heart, gets very angry that I’m reading about Conditional Security. If the devil hates the fact that I’m reading this, it must be true! I already believe in Christ, but when I read something that testifies of Christ, the devil gets angry.


#2

While we are not to be led by our feelings, in this case, they are right. ES was not taught until after the Protestant Reformation.

ICXC NIKA


#3

lovelylife22. You said:

I have been raised on the doctrine of Eternal Security and my church teaches it.

I had this stuff taught to me in Baptist Sunday school as a little kid too.

Later in High School at a camp, those who came forth, got a little card with that “you are now saved” date on it.

Utterly UN-Biblical traditions of men being fed to kids (like me back then).

ACTS 2:1, 37-39, 41-42 1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. . . . . 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.” . . . ." 41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

NOT ACTS 2 but a Phantom Verse 1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. . . . . 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, come forth! And merely accept Jesus into your heart as personal lord and savior. Then Peter gave them a piece of sheep parchment with the date on it. And they could now do anything they wanted and it would be seen as “backsliding” but they all went to Heaven anyway.


You also mentioned. . .

yet, when I read the words of the Church Fathers regarding conditional security, the Devil, the evil one whom I can feel in my heart, gets very angry that I’m reading about Conditional Security.

You are probably correct. The evil one hates Truth.

Here are a couple of items to reinforce what you are discovering.


Calvinist: Well I’ll hold fast to Romans 8:1.

I believe there is NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

ROMANS 8:1 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

How are Catholics going to respond to the force of Romans 8:1?

**
By affirming it.**

Catholic Response: Well we hold fast to Romans 8:1 too.

Because we ALSO believe there is NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus!

If the Bible teaches it, we as Catholics believe it with the proper interpretation.

But if you don’t remain in the Vine, if you choose to jump out of His hand, if you voluntarily decide to NOT REMAIN in Christ Jesus (as is warned elsewhere in Scripture) then you obviously are not IN Christ Jesus anymore, and then there IS condemnation!

Nothing can separate you from the LOVE of Christ. But someone CAN CHOOSE to reject the LIFE of Christ.

The Calvinist might wish the verse said:

**(Phantom verse) 8:1 ** 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who were in Christ Jesus.

But of course the verse doesn’t say that.


Catholics affirm if you are in a state of grace, if you are IN Christ Jesus, then there is NO CONDEMNATION for you.

But you must REMAIN IN Christ Jesus.

And if you choose NOT TO REMAIN IN Christ Jesus, then there IS condemnation for you.

ROMANS 8:1 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Unless there is repentance and a coming back to Christ Jesus, condemnation will be the outcome for those that leave Christ on their own volition.

Romans 8:1 does not teach or suggest “Eternal Security”, “Perseverance of the Saints” or “Once Saved Always Saved” (nor does any verse).

I may (or may not - depends on some other things) add a few more points as this thread goes along.


But keep up submitting yourself in GRACE, to the Truths you are discovering. You are doing great lovelylife22!

God bless.

Cathoholic


#4

This is perhaps one of the coolest summaries of many protesants I have seen lol


#5

Do you scream and hollow that you will go to hell if you don’t repent as some churches do or do you simply wait until that person repents of his sins?


#6

We are called to pray for them. The Holy Spirit will convict them of sin. What they do after that is a product of their free will. The scriptures are also helpful here:

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”


#7

We do not use the term “conditional security”.


#8

Do you scream and hollow that you will go to hell if you don’t repent as some churches do . . .

No. Catholics don’t usually do that.

The Baptist preachers that I knew as a kid didn’t usually do that either.

But I know from talking to other people that that kind of thing does occur.

Do we explain the possibility of codemnation? Yes. That’s part of a full Gospel.

But I haven’t observed a lot (admittedly I’ve seen SOME) of the screaming and hollering except maybe from some of the televangelists.

I think an authentic Catholic response would be to always be prepared to give a defense for the hope that lies within you. Then ask someone who a faith conversation comes up with . . . “Come let us reason together.”


#9

When I was in the Pentecostal church some years ago, this tactic is used heavily, if someone is known to be living in sin, they are bombarded with descriptions of how bad hell will be, how bad their suffering will be, how much they will regret not changing their ways when they have the chance, etc.

Surprisingly this does work for many people, out of fear alone, they give in and obey…funny how this same ‘tactic’ is used to keep society in general in line too, fear of being punished or suffering of some kind, forces most people into obedience…??


#10

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