Eucharist a Mere Meal


#1

I often get Protestants attacking me (Like Today) that we catholics reduce the Gospel to eating a mere meal and not understanding Faith. How does one go about answering this?


#2

[quote=philipmarus]I often get Protestants attacking me (Like Today) that we catholics reduce the Gospel to eating a mere meal and not understanding Faith. How does one go about answering this?
[/quote]

I think they have got that the wrong way round :rolleyes: it’s other Churches that say the bread is a mere meal, Catholics don’t say that.
We believe that the bread is just bread until the time of Conscrecration, when the Holy Spirit transforms the bread into the body and blood of Jesus.(Transubstantiation)

And if they can’t understand Transubstantiation, then how do they understand prayer ? as prayer is Spiritual.


#3

[quote=philipmarus]I often get Protestants attacking me (Like Today) that we catholics reduce the Gospel to eating a mere meal and not understanding Faith. How does one go about answering this?
[/quote]

Hi,
Try John chap 6 for starters. And the last supper. There are many others. Why not run a search on this website for holy communion? You will get tons of great replies to give them.

Yours in Jesus, Mary & Joseph,

John
Saints are just sinners who keep trying.http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


#4

I think What I’m getting is a perception of the eucharist as empty ritual “a work” in opposition to faith in Christ. I am not very good at getting my finger on it - I am not very analytical. I wish someone could explain how the eucharist relates to faith. I’ve had Protestants ask “How can eating a mere meal save you, only a walk with christ can do that?” A good answer or reading suggestions would be helpful.

God Bless


#5

I agree with Stephen-Maguire - it is the Protestants who reduce it to a mere meal. In fact, when I read the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about just that, it just being a meal in Protestantism. To them, it’s just bread and wine that they eat. To us, it is Truly Christ, Whom we recieve into our very bodies.

There are many points, I’m sure, which could be made in defense of the Eucharist. John 6 is magnificant, though they will often argue that Jesus simply means “believe in Me” when He says “Eat Me”. One good point is that it is clear that the Jews He was speaking to thought He was speaking literally, “eat my flesh, drink my blood”.
Does Jesus try to correct them, or to clarify that “no, it was just a parable. I didn’t mean really eat Me, just believe in me.” No. Instead, He does just the opposite, He continually stresses a literal interpritation “My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink”. Even when disciples say start leaving, He doesn’t say “Wait. Come back! You don’t understand…”. He turns to the Apostles and, instead of explaining it to them or making it any easier for it to understand, He puts it to them and says "Will you leave also?"
This affirms a literal interpritation of John 6. After the major body of the “Bread of Life Discourse” in John 6, Jesus says “it is not the flesh that gives life, but the spirit”. Some will say that confirms that He doesn’t mean it to be literal. But this isn’t so. Jesus says that He would give His flesh for the life of the world, earlier in the discourse.
Now, note that Jesus says “It is not THE flesh which gives life…”, where else where He says “My flesh”. “The flesh” refers to the world, a purely natural understanding, etc. A similar use can be found in the Garden of Gethsemane, “the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak”.

I reccommend reading John 6. Also, 1 Corinthians 11, I think has a passage about the Eucharist


#6

catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp

Try this article.

Yours in Jesus, Mary & Joseph,

John
Saints are just sinners who keep trying.http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


#7

[quote=philipmarus]I think What I’m getting is a perception of the eucharist as empty ritual “a work” in opposition to faith in Christ. I am not very good at getting my finger on it - I am not very analytical. I wish someone could explain how the eucharist relates to faith. I’ve had Protestants ask “How can eating a mere meal save you, only a walk with christ can do that?” A good answer or reading suggestions would be helpful.

God Bless
[/quote]

If they want a walk with Christ one needs to explain that there is more to being a Catholic than partaking of the Eucharist and participating in the Mass. Ask them what more do they do than attending services and hearing God’s word proclaimed anmd I will bet as a practicing Catholic you can more than match them in everything they might cite as living the life of a Christian. John 6 is an excellent reference. :thumbsup:


#8

Part of the problem is how they view Sacraments in general. To them, any Sacrament is just a work. Try to explain that Sacraments are gifts from God to bring us closer to Him. They are miracles from God, not works that we must do. IF the Sacraments were just “works”, they would be right. However, since they are gifts of God’s Presence among us, they are not “works”.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria


#9

Maria, Thanks. That helps a bit. My Knowledge of Sacraments as such is minimal as I am a self-learned into the Church. Can one prove the sacremental system from the Bible as the people I converse with not accept anything else. ?The only thing that I thought is the Book of James where it talks about annointing of the sick and grace is passed through a form of matter: OIL.


#10

The fact is, it is our non-Catholic brethren who have reduced the Eucharist to a mere meal, a simple ritual, simply because they regard it as purely symbolic. It is their lack of faith in the Eucharist which make their own criticism apply to them, rather than to Catholics who really believe in the true presence of Christ in the sacrament.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#11

[quote=philipmarus]I often get Protestants attacking me (Like Today) that we catholics reduce the Gospel to eating a mere meal and not understanding Faith. How does one go about answering this?
[/quote]

Mark

14:22 And whilst they were eating, Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said: “Take ye. This is my body.”

14:23 And having taken the chalice, giving thanks, he gave it to them. And they all drank of it. 14:24 And he said to them: "This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many

If you think about it, why would Jesus pass bread to 12 other people at the table ? why would he have them drink from what He drank?
If you were at a table with a large gathering, would you not eat your own bread, and drink from your own cup, Jesus passed around the Bread that He had blessed, and the wine He blessed.

In the movie the “Song of Bernadette” it says at the end “For those that believe no explanation is neccessary, for those that don’t believe, no explanation will suffice”.


#12

Thanks. This is awesome answer.It makes so much sense.

God Bless


#13

The Sacrament of Reconcilliation

:bible1: Jn 20:21-23

I love these verses:heart: I am also a fan of the creation story. In these verses, Christ breathed on the Apostles and said “Receive the Holy Spirit.23If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Two places God breathes on man and both deal with the soul.

Your friends will probably say this means go and teach forgiveness. But it does not say that. It says go and forgive. To forgive sins or retain them, implys one must hear them first. Confession to a priest in private is not how it always has been done. It used to be done in front of everyone, but that changed. Early Church records show this. The practice of how confession was done has changed. The directive has not. At the very least, they must admit that Catholics “find it in the Bible”. Ask them why an interpretation that has been around since the apostles is not valid yet theirs is?

I think others gave you verses on the Eucharist. Another source to better understand the Eucharist is the Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn. (There is another one, but I have not read it nor can remember the name.) In the Lamb’s Supper, it clearly explains the Jewish Liturgy of the Passover, the lamb that was sacrificed to have God “passover” the household. One point he made was the passover supper was incomplete until the lamb was eaten. This fits perfectly with the very literal belief of Catholics and the Real Presence of Christ.

I do not recommend the book to your friends, I know if it was not in the Bible, I would have not listened to it either. I recommend it to you so you can more confidently explain the Bible verses, and put them in context for your friends. (There is also a video on this. The part I was talking about takes about 30minutes to watch. Well worth the time and money.)

Times up, hope this helps some.

Your sister in Christ,
Maria


#14

[quote=philipmarus]I often get Protestants attacking me (Like Today) that we catholics reduce the Gospel to eating a mere meal and not understanding Faith. How does one go about answering this?
[/quote]

If Protestants consider it a mere meal it isn’t much of one, considering they usually have one little oyster cracker and a thimble full of grape juice. That’s not even a snack for my 3 year old.


#15

[quote=philipmarus]I often get Protestants attacking me (Like Today) that we catholics reduce the Gospel to eating a mere meal and not understanding Faith. How does one go about answering this?
[/quote]

I would ask them to re-read the book of Revelation where the climax of the book is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, a sacred communal meal, a heavenly banquet, the feasts of feasts.

God Bless…


#16

[font=Arial]Can one prove the sacremental system from the Bible as the people I converse with not accept anything else. ?

[/font]

This is a very good question! Sacraments are authentically derived from Christ and was written in the Holy Scriptures. Here’s the following:

  1. Sacrament of Baptism: (Col. 2:11–12) (Acts 16:33) (Matt. 28:19).

  2. Sacrament of Confirmation: Acts 8:14–17, 9:17, 19:6, and Hebrews 6:2

  3. Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick: James 5:14-15

  4. Sacrament of Reconciliation:

“As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (John 20:21–23); 2 Cor. 5:18

  1. Sacrament of Marriage:

“Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery” (Luke 16:18; cf. Mark 10:11–12).

“Thus a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. . . . Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive” (Rom. 7:2–3).

  1. Holy Orders: John 20:22 - Jesus only breathed on the male apostles, giving them the authority to forgive and retain sins. The sacred tradition of a male priesthood has existed uncompromised in the Church for 2,000 years. Only priests are given that authority.
    At the last supper, Jesus told his disciples (the 12 apostles) to do the offering of the Eucharist always; “Do these in remembrance of me.” By that statement, the Lord has given that first Sacrament of Holy Orders to the apostles and later on the apostles did the ordination by laying on of hands for those who will become priests/bishops.

  2. Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist:

Exodus 12:5 - the paschal lamb that was sacrificed and eaten had to be without blemish. Luke 23:4,14; John 18:38 - Jesus is the true paschal Lamb without blemish.

Exodus 12:43-45; Ezek. 44:9 - no one outside the “family of God” shall eat the lamb. Non-Catholics should not partake of the Eucharist until they are in full communion with the Church.

Exodus 12:8,11 - the paschal lamb had to be eaten by the faithful in order for God to “pass over” the house and spare their first-born sons. Jesus, the true paschal Lamb, must also be eaten by the faithful in order for God to forgive their sins.

Malachi 1:11 - this is a prophecy of a pure offering that will be offered in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting. Thus, there will be only one sacrifice, but it will be offered in many places around the world. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the Catholic Church in the Masses around the world, where the sacrifice of Christ which transcends time and space is offered for our salvation. If this prophecy is not fulfilled by the Catholic Church, then Malachi is a false prophet.

John 6:51-52- then Jesus says that the bread He is referring to is His flesh. The Jews take Him literally and immediately question such a teaching. How can this man give us His flesh to eat?

1 Cor. 11:27-30 - thus, if we partake of the Eucharist unworthily, we are guilty of literally murdering the body of Christ, and risking physical consequences to our bodies. This is overwhelming evidence for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Pio


#17

[quote=philipmarus]I often get Protestants attacking me (Like Today) that we catholics reduce the Gospel to eating a mere meal and not understanding Faith. How does one go about answering this?
[/quote]

I think you could begin by admitting that any Catholic who thinks that the Eucharist (and the other sacraments) are the only thing that matter in our faith, is mistaken. There are Catholics who tend towards this belief and a little slap in the face in this regard, even from a non-Catholic, might be a helpful thing.

Pope John XXIII stated and Pope John Paul II emphatically reaffirmed: “That which seperates us as believers in Christ is far less than what unites us” They were both refering to non-Catholic Christians.

Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. Those who downplay or dismiss this truth are missing a great thing. But anyone who doesn’t respond to that presence by listening to His words and building their life on them, is missing even more.

This is Jesus’s teaching and it is the teaching of the Catholic Church. Some Catholics forget that just as some non-Catholic Christians also forget what is most important.

Any other Christian who is “attacking” you has clearly forgotten the most important truth. Any Christian who reminds you of the truth is doing you a favor.

Peace

-Jim


#18

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