Eucharist crumbs falling on the floor


#1

At a place where I go to mass we use actual bread for the Eucharist as opposed to wafers.

Unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of using real bread is that it is very easy for there to be crumbs that fall over the place during communion.

There have been multiple times where there have been crumbs that fall on the carpet at these masses. I sit in the front, so it’s very easy for me to see them. I usually notice it after everyone has received and we are waiting for the alter to be cleared.

Now I usually get reeeeeally scrupulous about this. The reason is because of the fact that, while it is very easy for me to simply pick up the crumbs myself and either eat them or give them to the priest, the fact of the matter is that 1) I get so incredibly frustrated that the EMHC’s and the priests are not more careful about this and 2) I get scrupulous about whether I picked up all the crumbs or not. There are usually other substances in the carpet that I sometimes mistake for crumbs, and it is very hard for me to distinguish between what is and what is not actual Eucharist (especially since it falls into a carpet-like material). So I end up scrupling over everything and feeling like I might sin if I don’t do a somewhat-thorough “inspection” of the carpet after mass.

My question is this: how much of a moral obligation do I have in this matter? Should I just stop sitting in the front so that I don’t see this? Should I just pick up stuff that is obviously the Eucharist and not scruple about other “particles”? Please help :shrug:


#2

I guess the only thing to do is to talk to the priest. It's ultimately up to him to figure out what to do.

I sympathize-- we have real bread as well and it is crumbly!


#3

I'm sorry I don't know the answer, but I just wanted to say that.. if this is a Latin Rite parish (as opposed to Eastern Catholic) - they're obligated to use unleavened bread (ie: wafers). Only the Eastern rites are allowed to use leavened bread.

If your parish uses leavened bread, it's probably valid as a Sacrament but illicit, and I would recommend finding another parish...

I also think it's a HUGE problem that the crumbs are falling on the floor... usually, if a Host falls to the floor, the priest must pick it up and consume it himself. If the priest is not doing anything about this, that's very unfortunate, and is disrespectful to Our Lord.

Have you spoken to the priest about this?


#4

Assuming the use of leavened bread is allowed in this particular Catholic sect, wouldn't the proper use of the Paten prevent crumbs from falling to the floor?


#5

First, the wafers are real bread. They're just made in a different way so that there will be no crumbs, and its easy to give them to the public.

Second, while its not mandatory to use wafers, I wonder what kind of bread you're using. The Latin Rite strictly uses unleavened bread, so it should be flat bread. It should like like a pita bread if its baked into something that looks like what a regular unleavened bread is.

Can you please clarify first if this is a Roman Catholic Church, or an Eastern Catholic Church (Ukrainian, Melkite, etc?). If its a Byzantine Rite Church then leavened bread would be used. But still no reason for crumbs as the Body and Blood of Christ are received together via a golden spoon.


#6

[quote="Bob_Aliano, post:4, topic:208456"]
Assuming the use of leavened bread is allowed in this particular Catholic sect, wouldn't the proper use of the Paten prevent crumbs from falling to the floor?

[/quote]

Home made unleavened bread would still crumb


#7

[quote="Monica4316, post:3, topic:208456"]
I would recommend finding another parish...

[/quote]

I would recommend not to. And I would recommend that as good, sensible Catholics, we stop giving advise like this one.

If an abuse is spotted, then that person should do all they can to help correct the abuse. Its our duty as Catholics. Why would we allow absue to exist in our Church? Its like a tumor, we must take it out. Otherwise it will only spread. Also, moving out means you're interested only in your own spiritual salvation, and not of others. This is contrary to what Christ has commanded us. We should care about our neighbors, therefore we should not let other people be subject to this abuse.


#8

[quote="Bob_Aliano, post:4, topic:208456"]
Assuming the use of leavened bread is allowed in this particular Catholic sect, wouldn't the proper use of the Paten prevent crumbs from falling to the floor?

[/quote]

Might have to be a larger paten, but definitely. :thumbsup:


#9

[quote="Bob_Aliano, post:4, topic:208456"]
Assuming the use of leavened bread is allowed in this particular Catholic sect, wouldn't the proper use of the Paten prevent crumbs from falling to the floor?

[/quote]

**Proper **use, most likely would at least help.

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:7, topic:208456"]
I would recommend not to. And I would recommend that as good, sensible Catholics, we stop giving advise like this one.

If an abuse is spotted, then that person should do all they can to help correct the abuse. Its our duty as Catholics. Why would we allow absue to exist in our Church? ** Its like a tumor, we must take it out. ** Otherwise it will only spread. Also, moving out means you're interested only in your own spiritual salvation, and not of others. This is contrary to what Christ has commanded us. We should care about our neighbors, therefore we should not let other people be subject to this abuse.

[/quote]

If you had a tumor, wouldn't it be better if a surgeon took it out?

First of all, it needs to be confimed as a tumor, then taken out by someone qualified to do so. The patient can let the surgeon know that there's something wrong, though. ;)


#10

It's a latin-rite church. And the bread is not really flat, either. Apparently they make it the correct way though.

Is it true that you can only use wafers in the latin rite? Can I see relevant documentation for this?


#11

Jesus is the healer, let us be His instruments


#12

[quote="pcg2, post:10, topic:208456"]
It's a latin-rite church. And the bread is not really flat, either. Apparently they make it the correct way though.

Is it true that you can only use wafers in the latin rite? Can I see relevant documentation for this?

[/quote]

No, the requirement only calls for unleavened bread, made with only wheat and water. There is no prescription on the form, but the wafers were made out of the necessity that there be small pieces of bread that can be easily distributed with very minimal danger of crumbs falling. That is why its advisable and highly recommended, but not required. How the bread looks like is already beyond the requirements of valid matter.


#13

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:11, topic:208456"]
Jesus is the healer, let us be His instruments

[/quote]

But who's the surgeon? Jesus is the Dean of the Church, and he trains the surgeons, no?

;)


#14

[quote="Newbie2, post:13, topic:208456"]
But who's the surgeon? Jesus is the Dean of the Church, and he trains the surgeons, no?

;)

[/quote]

Truth of the matter is, abuses at the parish level should be dealt with at the parish level. And this involves the laity like you and me.


#15

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:14, topic:208456"]
Truth of the matter is, abuses at the parish level should be dealt with at the parish level. And this involves the laity like you and me.

[/quote]

most priests are not going to listen to you. they do as they please. what planet do you live in?


#16

[quote="wisdomseeker, post:15, topic:208456"]
most priests are not going to listen to you. they do as they please. what planet do you live in?

[/quote]

So just give up then?
You shouldn't be complaining about abuses in the Church if you yourself are seeing it and letting it happen. You are as guilty as those who actually perform the abuse.

Wow, this is amazing. People have died for this faith, and we can't even be bothered to fight for something like this? And then we go on internet forums and complain non-stop about abuses and then refuse to do anything about it.

The planet I live on, you have to do something for something to happen. Things do not fix themselves.


#17

[quote="ConstantineTG, post:16, topic:208456"]
So just give up then?
You shouldn't be complaining about abuses in the Church if you yourself are seeing it and letting it happen. You are as guilty as those who actually perform the abuse.

Wow, this is amazing. People have died for this faith, and we can't even be bothered to fight for something like this? And then we go on internet forums and complain non-stop about abuses and then refuse to do anything about it.

The planet I live on, you have to do something for something to happen. Things do not fix themselves.

[/quote]

I Absolutely agree. We Must stand up and speak. Who will be held accountable? The one who didn't know and thus did the abuse out of ignorance? Or the person who allowed it to happen by not saying anything?

We must always stand up and say something, no matter if we think the person will be responsive of it and change, or not.


#18

Canon Law supports such acts and in fact states its part of our duty as faithful Christians to let our pastors know if we are knowledgable of such information that will be for the good of the Church:

THE OBLIGATIONS AND RIGHTS OF ALL THE CHRISTIAN FAITHFUL
Can. 212
§3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.


#19

Thanks for this. However, I’ve heard of a few doing exactly this with no favorable results. The only hope in many cases is for a new pastor and/or new bishop.


#20

At a place where I go to mass we use actual bread for the Eucharist as opposed to wafers.

Unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of using real bread is that it is very easy for there to be crumbs that fall over the place during communion.

There have been multiple times where there have been crumbs that fall on the carpet at these masses. I sit in the front, so it’s very easy for me to see them. I usually notice it after everyone has received and we are waiting for the alter to be cleared.

Now I usually get reeeeeally scrupulous about this. The reason is because of the fact that, while it is very easy for me to simply pick up the crumbs myself and either eat them or give them to the priest, the fact of the matter is that 1) I get so incredibly frustrated that the EMHC’s and the priests are not more careful about this and 2) I get scrupulous about whether I picked up all the crumbs or not. There are usually other substances in the carpet that I sometimes mistake for crumbs, and it is very hard for me to distinguish between what is and what is not actual Eucharist (especially since it falls into a carpet-like material). So I end up scrupling over everything and feeling like I might sin if I don’t do a somewhat-thorough “inspection” of the carpet after mass.

My question is this: how much of a moral obligation do I have in this matter? Should I just stop sitting in the front so that I don’t see this? Should I just pick up stuff that is obviously the Eucharist and not scruple about other “particles”? Please help :shrug:

Friend this is a GRAVE abuse that actually invalidates the Mass. It becomes a ilicit and INVALID Mass because of invalid form. Further were this a vaild form: Jesus in His Entireity would be whole and complete in every tiny fragment.

I strongly suggest that you AT ONCE contact your Bishops Office, department of the Liturgy. I repeat this is a MOST SERIOUS an GRAVE abuse.

Code of Canon Law:
Art. 3.

THE RITES AND CEREMONIES OF THE EUCHARISTIC CELEBRATION

Can. 924 §1. The most holy eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed.

§2. The bread must be only wheat and recently made so that there is no danger of spoiling.

§3. The wine must be natural from the fruit of the vine and not spoiled.

**Can. 925 **Holy communion is to be given under the form of bread alone, or under both species according to the norm of the liturgical laws, or even under the form of wine alone in a case of necessity.

**Can. 926 **According to the ancient tradition of the Latin Church, the priest is to use unleavened bread in the eucharistic celebration whenever he offers it.

Love and prayers

Pat

Send me a PM if you have other qustions PJM


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