Eucharist


#1

I have been watching a number of Catholic movies lately, and in many of them, they deal with war or circumstances where it would be difficult if not impossible to follow the Church’s “guidelines” for lack of a better word, about the ingredients in the Host. If a priest doesnt have unleavened wheat, is the consecration still valid? How does this work? i’ve been wondering about this for some time. thanks!


#2

[quote="datritle, post:1, topic:304766"]
I have been watching a number of Catholic movies lately, and in many of them, they deal with war or circumstances where it would be difficult if not impossible to follow the Church's "guidelines" for lack of a better word, about the ingredients in the Host. If a priest doesnt have unleavened wheat, is the consecration still valid? How does this work? i've been wondering about this for some time. thanks!

[/quote]

Unleavened bread (not 'unleavened wheat') is simply wheat flour and water. Just two ingredients and both are usually readily available in many areas (North America, Europe, South America, Australia),

First, many parishes keep unconsecrated Hosts on hand in quantity,

If there were a situation like a war, either supplies (just like all the other supplies such as water, other food, fuel, medicines) would get shipped in to a fighting unit, or 'made' on site. Most places have stores (suppose you are fighting outside even a small town) where flour sacks would be available.

And of course, going into a war situation, even the smallest possible fragment of a host would contain 'all of Jesus', so you could distribute smaller particles.

And don't forget that wine (simple wine) --which is also rather available even in war --may ALSO be consecrated and distributed if there is no 'bread' that can be consecrated, and that Precious Blood ALSO contains 'all of Jesus' even in the tiniest sip.

God bless.


#3

Thanks, but i know all of that. and yes, i misspoke, i meant bread that is made of just wheat and water. say that a group of people is wandering through the wilderness, hunting to survive, and/or there is no wheat available, but say you have a few crackers or rye bread, or some such, how would a priest go about this?


#4

This is not true. While it is possible for the wine to be consecrated alone:
Can. 927 It is absolutely forbidden, even in extreme urgent necessity, to consecrate one matter without the other or even both outside the eucharistic celebration.


#5

[quote="datritle, post:3, topic:304766"]
Thanks, but i know all of that. and yes, i misspoke, i meant bread that is made of just wheat and water. say that a group of people is wandering through the wilderness, hunting to survive, and/or there is no wheat available, but say you have a few crackers or rye bread, or some such, how would a priest go about this?

[/quote]

No.

Can.* 924 §1. The most holy eucharistic sacrifice must be offered with bread and with wine in which a little water must be mixed.

§2. The bread must be only wheat and recently made so that there is no danger of spoiling.


#6

If to some the canon laws of the Church sound nit-picky, please remember that our Lord loves when we are obedient to the Church; the Lord's grace is not wanting when we are obedient. Trust !


#7

[quote="MarkThompson, post:4, topic:304766"]
This is not true. While it is possible for the wine to be consecrated alone:
Can. 927 It is absolutely forbidden, even in extreme urgent necessity, to consecrate one matter without the other or even both outside the eucharistic celebration.

[/quote]

Oh, absolutely. What I meant, but didn't 'cross the T's' so to speak, is that in a situation where you have LITTLE bread (but not' no bread') you can use consecrated wine if there is more of it. IOW, if at Mass where the priest has consecrated even ONE host, and there is a lot of wine, all the wine could be consecrated and offered to the people as one species, kind of a reverse of where the same thing happens, at least ONE chalice consecrated, but only the consecrated HOSTS are offered to the people. True?


#8

And of course, here is the other thing.

We do not HAVE TO HAVE the Eucharist at every Mass. If we have a situation where there are say very limited quantities of bread and wine that are going to be available, well, what you are going to want to do is have it stretch out so that the priest can offer a host and enough wine at each Mass that Mass is actually CELEBRATED, and the priest partakes, and then the PEOPLE can make a spiritual communion.

If you have for example a situation where there is a priest and a parish, and the priest has 6 bottles of wine and 100 reserved unconsecrated hosts, you want to try to 'ration' so that the priest can offer 100 Masses where he uses one host at each, consecrates 100 chalices of wine at the same time, and then receives it himself. That way you get 100 valid Masses and at each one the people receive graces from those Masses PLUS they can make a spiritual communion at Mass.

If you're in a real real awful situation where you could only have Mass once a week, that would be nearly 2 year's worth of Masses. You could practically have gone through the Korean War with that.

If you were in a situation like the pioneers, where you had maybe a chance of Mass twice a month, you have nearly 4 years' worth --that would take you through WW2 in the U.S. from Pearl Harbor to VJ Day.

Extend to Mass only once a month, and you have enough for 8 years, which would get you through the American Revolution PLUS the War of 1812 (not that they were fought back to back mind you!)


#9

[quote="Tantum_ergo, post:7, topic:304766"]
Oh, absolutely. What I meant, but didn't 'cross the T's' so to speak, is that in a situation where you have LITTLE bread (but not' no bread') you can use consecrated wine if there is more of it. IOW, if at Mass where the priest has consecrated even ONE host, and there is a lot of wine, all the wine could be consecrated and offered to the people as one species, kind of a reverse of where the same thing happens, at least ONE chalice consecrated, but only the consecrated HOSTS are offered to the people. True?

[/quote]

Yes, that's true. When you said "if there is no 'bread' that can be consecrated," I thought you meant none at all even for the priest's Communion. Obviously, distributing only under the species of wine is not standard practice, but in an emergency-type situation it would be perfectly reasonable.


#10

[quote="datritle, post:1, topic:304766"]
I have been watching a number of Catholic movies lately, and in many of them, they deal with war or circumstances where it would be difficult if not impossible to follow the Church's "guidelines" for lack of a better word, about the ingredients in the Host. If a priest doesnt have unleavened wheat, is the consecration still valid? How does this work? i've been wondering about this for some time. thanks!

[/quote]

Just curious--which movies are you speaking about here?


#11

[quote="Chatter163, post:10, topic:304766"]
Just curious--which movies are you speaking about here?

[/quote]

Black robe, Der Neunte Tag, The Mission. Not that it's the case in all the movies, but they are what led me to think about that.


#12

[quote="datritle, post:11, topic:304766"]
Black robe, Der Neunte Tag, The Mission. Not that it's the case in all the movies, but they are what led me to think about that.

[/quote]

As you do mention Der neunte Tag, I am pretty sure that the non German priests at Dachau did not have bread made from only wheat and water.The bread they would have for food would have been a vey coarse rye bread. There's a scene in the movie where they celebrate mass with this kind of bread. I'm pretty sure that Christ made himself availiable to these poor priests, even though the bread wasn't of the correct substance.


closed #13

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