Eucharistic Questions


#1

Hello All

I’m on another forum and am being driven demented by non catholics asking questions about the Eucharist and basically saying that us Catholics are talking hogwash.

One of them is as follows:

“What would happen if a hungry unbeliever found and ate Jesus, the Eucharist?
Would the unbeliever have Jesus in them for a little while?
Would they be indwelt by Jesus? Would they be saved for a while? How long?”

Any help on answering the above would really be appreciated.

Thanks


#2

Remind them that we have no interest in answering stupid questions.

Remind them that in their own Bible it says “This is my body”, not “This represents my body”.

If they like stupid questions, ask them: If God can do anything, can he make a rock big enough to crush him to death?


#3

The answer to the first part is yes. They would have Jesus in them ‘physically’ for a little while. Of course he is with us spiritually all the time, most effectively while we are in the state of grace.

The actual presence of Christ in the Eucharist is not dependant on the faith of the recipient. It is there through the actions of the Priest by the power of the Holy Spirit.

If the presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament was dependant on the state of the believer, a recipient, conscious of the presence of unconfessed mortal sin in their soul could receive without sacrilege. That is ludricous and impossible.

We are told not to receive if we are in the state of mortal sin. This affirms that the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is dependant only on the consecration.

They would be indwelt by him physically for a while even if they are not conscious of it.


#4

LOL Rick and thanks Fergal!!!


#5

[quote=WILKM]Would they be saved for a while? How long?"
[/quote]

No, they would not be “saved” for a while. If an unbeliever or someone in a state of mortal sin consumes the Eucharist, it actually has the opposite effect and is treated as a sacrilege, not a blessing.

1 Corinthians 11: (27-29)

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks **without discerning the body **eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

Being in a state of Grace (baptised and with no mortal sin) and “discerning the body” is required to receive the Grace offered through consuming Christ’s Body and Blood. If either of those two elements are missing, the individual “eats and drinks judgement upon himself.”

Right from the Bible – they should understand that.

Peace,
javelin


#6

[quote=catholica]Remind them that we have no interest in answering stupid questions.

Remind them that in their own Bible it says “This is my body”, not “This represents my body”.

If they like stupid questions, ask them: If God can do anything, can he make a rock big enough to crush him to death?
[/quote]

Also remind them that in their Bible Jesus says that his “flesh is true food” and his “blood is true drink”


#7

[quote=WILKM]Hello All

I’m on another forum and am being driven demented by non catholics asking questions about the Eucharist and basically saying that us Catholics are talking hogwash.

One of them is as follows:

“What would happen if a hungry unbeliever found and ate Jesus, the Eucharist?
Would the unbeliever have Jesus in them for a little while?
Would they be indwelt by Jesus? Would they be saved for a while? How long?”

Any help on answering the above would really be appreciated.

Thanks

[/quote]

“What would happen if a hungry unbeliever found and ate Jesus, the Eucharist?”

He would receive the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

“Would the unbeliever have Jesus in them for a little while?”

He would have Christ physically present in him but derive no Spiritual benefit from it.

“Would they be indwelt by Jesus? Would they be saved for a while? How long?”

As answered above, Yes. Would they be “saved” by this act? No, and if intentionally done could be condemned by it.


#8

Thank you so much everyone for your responses. This is absolutely great and helps alot, believe me!!!

Kathy


#9

Here is my reply to this chap and his responses in red. Question is … do I carry on replying to him or should I just leave it?

**“What would happen if a hungry unbeliever found and ate Jesus, the Eucharist?”
**He would receive the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. In the Bible Jesus says that his flesh is real food and his blood is real drink.

**“Would the unbeliever have Jesus in them for a little while?”
**He would have Christ physically present in him but derive no Spiritual benefit from it.

You say no Spiritual benefit, but would Jesus Christ be in the unbeliever Spiritually?
That is, can Jesus physical presence be present without the spiritual presence?
Is the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit the “one” and the same spiritual presence as the spiritual presence of Christ?

**“Would they be indwelt by Jesus? Would they be saved for a while? How long?”
**No, they would not be “saved” for a while.

OK, not saved (at all, I presume).
Would they be indwelt by Jesus? How long?

If an unbeliever or someone in a state of mortal sin consumes the Eucharist, it actually has the opposite effect and is treated as a sacrilege, not a blessing.

Treated by WHO?
and for how long?
That is, how long does a blessing or sacrilege last?

1 Corinthians 11:27-29
Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.

Curious … what version is this?

Being in a state of Grace (baptised and with no mortal sin) and “discerning the body” is required to receive the Grace offered through consuming Christ’s Body and Blood. If either of those two elements are missing, the individual “eats and drinks judgement upon himself.”

I presume baptised means with “water”.
What does “with” mean in regard to sin? Not forgiven of a sin?
How does one become “without” sin?

Is there a list of things considered to be “mortal sin” somewhere? in scripture?

Are the two requirements that you mention based in scripture or only on Tradition?
That is, is “worthily” defined as such by scripture?


#10

We’re all pulling for you WILKM. I don’t know about the others, but, I’ve been in this situation before…I think most of us have, having to defend our faith to people who don’t WANT to get it. I don’t know if he would come here & if he would last long, but, I think if he really wants answers, let us help him out over here. God bless you & Mary keep you, WILKM!!!

…btw, Jesus would be in the person until He is fully digested & passed out as waste, I believe.


#11

ALSO, if I may, the blessing lasts as long as the person doesn’t sin. The sacrilige lasts until the person repents.

One becomes without sin when one is forgiven in confession…but, this opens a whole new can of worms. :frowning:

…It doesn’t look like the person really wants to know but only show you how wrong you are for believing in this. If you’d like, turn the tables on him: catholic-convert.com/Portals/57ad7180-c5e7-49f5-b282-c6475cdb7ee7/Documents/QuestionsForBibleChristians.doc


#12

Thanks so much adstrinity. I get so frustrated at times. I’m not really into arguing about my Catholic faith as I know it’s the true faith and we believe in the Bible and sacred tradition and I absolutely love my Catholic faith but to try and defend our faith to Bible only people is sometimes like trying to bang your head against a brick wall!!! They just don’t get it and don’t want to get it. LOL.


#13

[quote=WILKM]Here is my reply to this chap and his responses in red. Question is … do I carry on replying to him or should I just leave it?
[/quote]

It depends on what you think his intentions are. Is he just out to push his views on you, or does he really want to know what the Church teaches? Here are short answers if he really wants to hear them.

The Eucharist is the complete Christ - Body, Blood, Spirit, and Divinity. Thus, all of Him would be consumed by the unbeliever and would be physically “in” the unbeliever.

Beyond that, there is obviously a difference in the use of terms of what it means for Christ to be “in” someone. When we normally say “Jesus is in you”, we are normally referring to the mystery of how His Spirit comes to dwell in us and how our spirits are made to be like His through regenerative baptism, whereby we become children of God. This happens only through the Grace of God, and is the initial moment of our process of sanctification, or being “saved”.

However, this process is not what takes place when an unbeliever consumes the Eucharist. The Holy Spirit is “in” this person only insofar as the Spirit is in the Eucharist, which is physically inside the person’s body. Unlike baptism, there is no spiritual “connection”, if you will, between God’s Spirit and the person’s soul.

The sacrilege of profaning the Lord in the Eucharist is similar to how it was sacrilege for an ancient heretical Jew to simply waltz into the Holy of Holies, open the Ark of the Convenant, and rifle through its contents.

[quote=WILKM]**“Would they be indwelt by Jesus? Would they be saved for a while? How long?”
**No, they would not be “saved” for a while.

OK, not saved (at all, I presume).
Would they be indwelt by Jesus? How long?

I think the term “indwelt” has a very specific definition in many circumstances. You will need to ask him to clarify what he means by “indwelt” before you can really answer this. My response to the previous question may suffice – there is no communion of God’s Spirit and the unbeliever’s.

[/quote]

[quote=WILKM] If an unbeliever or someone in a state of mortal sin consumes the Eucharist, it actually has the opposite effect and is treated as a sacrilege, not a blessing.

Treated by WHO?
and for how long?
That is, how long does a blessing or sacrilege last?

[/quote]

Treated by WHO? – by God (see Holy of Holies analogy)
and for how long? – until the person is fully repentant and forgiven.

Revised Standard Version

(answers inline):
I presume baptised means with “water”.
–Not specifically, but that is the normative means of baptism.

What does “with” mean in regard to sin? Not forgiven of a sin?
How does one become “without” sin?
–One becomes without sin through the forgiveness of God, granted through Jesus, possible because of His death and resurrection, which “wipes sin away”.

Is there a list of things considered to be “mortal sin” somewhere? in scripture?
–Not all things which are mortally sinful are explicitly listed in Scripture, but some are. Those that are not explicit can be understood from Scripture, and we have the Church’s guidance on that. See 1 John 5:16-17.

Are the two requirements that you mention based in scripture or only on Tradition? – see last response

That is, is “worthily” defined as such by scripture? – not explicitly. It has been affirmed by the Church.

Peace,
javelin


#14

2000 (give or take) years ago, when Jesus was actually physically here on earth, his presence affected different people differently. He was in a crowd, being bumped and jostled, when suddenly he asks his disciples “who touched me?” because someone had touched him with more faith than the others. (The woman who was then healed by her faith and by God’s grace)

He went to Martha and Mary’s house and there was greeted by Martha with “the details of hospitality” but Mary greeted him by listening to him. (And thus received the better portion)

Many passages indicate how different people responded differently than others and thus earned different rewards. Some didn’t even know or care who he was.

I submit that nothing has changed. Jesus is as present in the Eucharist as he was present 2000 years ago. But that presence doesn’t benefit anyone who happens to be in its physical presence unless they listen to Him and have faith in Him.

peace

-Jim


#15

Thank you so much everyone - I really mean it.

I’ve sent off a reply to this chap. He loves to argue absolutely every point that anyone makes!!!


#16

You have all been such a help with regard to this thread. Here is the chap’s (Mr X) response which I am quoting below. If you have anything further to add, would be delighted!

Thank you.
Kathy

Quote

Thanks! I am learning some new things.
Quote: The Eucharist is the complete Christ - Body, Blood, Spirit, and Divinity. Thus, all of Him would be consumed by the unbeliever and would be physically “in” the unbeliever. Regardless of believer or unbeliever, how long is the physical Body/Blood of Christ in the person? Quote: The blessing lasts as long as the person doesn’t commit a mortal sin. If the believer commits a mortal sin while Christ is still physically in them, is the blessing renewed by Him or does the person have to “partake of the sacrament of confession or reconciliation” and then consume Him again? Is there a required waiting period for partking of these sequences of sacraments? I mean, if you partake of communion again while Christ is still physically in you, would you have two complete Christ’s in you at once or do they join physically as one? Quote: If an unbeliever or someone in a state of mortal sin consumes the Eucharist, it actually has the opposite effect and is treated as a sacrilege
. . . ]
The sacrilege of profaning the Lord in the Eucharist is similar to how it was sacrilege for an ancient heretical Jew to simply waltz into the Holy of Holies, open the Ark of the Convenant, and rifle through its contents.
. . . ]
The sacrilege lasts until the person repents. You seem to equate sacrilege with sin.

From Romans 14:23 – for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If someone has faith that the Eucharist is not Christ,
then are they still committing a sin if they consume it?
I mean if I just wanted to consume the food and drink while fellowshipping with a body of believers in remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice upon the tree and in hopes that I don’t offend anyone, having faith that it is not sin to consume the food and drink, would that still be considered sin by the members of the RCC?

Sorry, that was worded a bit convoluted maybe. Quote: Kathy - Being in a state of Grace (baptised and with no mortal sin) and “discerning the body” is required to receive the Grace offered through consuming Christ’s Body and Blood.

Mr X – I presume baptised means with “water”.

Kathy – Not specifically, but that is the normative means of baptism. Would having been baptized by the Holy Ghost suffice? Unquote


#17

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