Ever Met Evangical Christian who said they weren't Saved or Justified?

Has anyone met an Evangelical Protestant that said they weren’t saved?:shrug:

From what I understand of the born again and OSAS doctrines is there are variations and these are some to my understanding.

Being born again

  1. Repenting ones sins to God and Accepting and proclaiming Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and establishing a personal relationship with him.
  2. Having sort of a mental break down and falling down on your knees crying sobbing hysterically and repenting then accepting and proclaiming Jesus Christ as your lord and savior and establishing a relationship with him. According to some if you don’t have this emotional experience you were never born again.
  3. Basically 1 and 2 plus rejecting organized religion or any Denomination and only following the Bible.

Being Saved

  1. Accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior thus saving your soul. Once Saved always saved and no sin can separate you from God or take away your inheritance from the kingdom of heaven.
  2. The Same thing as 1 accept it is encouraged you repent your sins to God immediately but they still can not Damn you to Hell.
  3. Once Saved always saved same as 1 accept if you sinned after being save you were never saved to begin with and were never truly justified to begin with in order to receive salvation.

Now just concentrating on literal Calvinist.

I once met a Janitor who at a Presbyterian church I was guarding the parking lock for who told me as I was having a conversation about getting back on the wagon with my faith that if I had sinned after being saved I wasn’t saved in the first place and that if you sin after you are saved you aren’t saved and were never justified to begin with.

I sincerely question his own slate consider sure you can not “Sin” after being saved but isn’t condemning other people to Hellfire being judgmental and therefore taking on the place of God supreme impartial Judge? Doesn’t that also fall under pride?
Not Judging others is the 2nd of Christ most important Commandments after Love your God above all else.

So this guy basically told me I’m not saved and I am sure he has told other people and perhaps his Pastor has as or maybe not maybe it was just him.
Either way I am sure some churches do tell their members they are not saved and my question is if someone point’s out you have sinned or you recognize you have sinned after being saved and your not saved or justified then what?

If a person isn’t Saved what do you do then?
Do you give up and buy the farm or do every sinful evil thing you have ever desired?

Do you just stop going to Church do you use the Bible as a paper weight from then on there.
Do you switch Churches?

Has anyone known a Christian who said they were not Saved or Justified and how do they handle their life how does that effect their faith? Do they just keep trying to be good Christians even though no matter how chaste a life they live or even if they reached a permanent state Grace they are still going to hell?
Do they just give up on life?

This was my original thread here but I think maybe I should have placed it here to begin with.
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=886039

In my many conversations with various Protestants, I’ve met only one who was convinced that once he was saved, he never sinned. I was incredulous, but since I didn’t know him very well I couldn’t point out any specific sins, except maybe presumption. I really wanted to call his wife and ask her opinion. :smiley:

Of course not. The way they become saved and justified, in their way of teaching, is so easy that one would need to be a complete fool to be told how easy it is, and not follow through and do it.

just few days ago,i read an article about a born again christian who claimed that they do sin,but less frequent and all their sins are forgiven.i made a comment that in the prison system,most of the hardened criminals were born, raised and continue to live as born again christians.about a decade ago in my area ,a very popular married born again christian minister ,suffered a heart attack and died ,whilst having sex with his secretary,not his wife in his church office.does anybody think here that he was forgiven,because of his belief???

In his mind, and in the minds of many of the fellow believers in his church, most definitely. To think anything less would contradict their belief system.

In the minds of most Catholics, I’d say that he’s in for a big surprise when he finds himself in that (non-existent) Purgatory, and I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt here. :smiley:

I have a feeling your friend may be one of the very few in Evangelical circles of the Calvinist variety they are not among the Elect. Calvinism’s perseverance of the saints has at it’s base, God as Soverien Lord and Makerr in His Own Wisdom and Foreknowledgfe choose some to be among the Elect. The majority He has as Soveriegn Lord and Creator chosen they be damned.

Therefore if one is among the Elext one will turn toward God as He has Ordained. Because you are among the Elect, there is nothing you can do to be “un-Elected”

So too if you are one Chaen from the foundations of the earth to be damned, there is nothing one can do about it. NOW that is a radically stated tenet of Primitive e Baptista, my maternal grandmother was Primitive Baptist, and that is the core of their belief…but “cleaned up” among most Calvinista today

Perhaps your friend hola extreme Calvinist ideas.

well I am prot., and I really don’t follow what you’re trying to get at exactly,nor the people who posted below you, either,…?

This question pertains to Christians who are fundamentalist Calvinist / Extremist Baptista.
Individuals who believe after one is saved and they comitt a sin afterwards are not saved and were never justified to begin with in order to receive Salvation.

The first question was

  1. Has anyone ever met an Evangelical Christian who said they were not Saved or Justified?

The second question essentially was this.

So there is no confusion ill setup the scenario which is the foundation and background of the actual question.

An individual is saved and sometime afterwards comitts a sin.
For the sake of a better understanding of the situation it is what some might classify as a mortal sin and is universally considered in Christianity to be a intrinsically evil gravely offensive sin.
The individual whether by their own acknowledgement or by being informed by others such as other members of their congregation or the pastor that they are not saved because if one comitts a sin after being saved they were never saved to begin with or Justified for that matter in order to receive Salvation.

So now that the individual is aware of this comes the actual question.

  1. How does a person who knows that they are not saved react and deal with their life and Christian walk?

One problem with High or Hyper-Calvinism is that it emphasizes knowledge rather than action, which is heretical for as Paul said, we know in part (1 Cor 13:9,13), and can only ever know in part, and we can certainly not know as regards everyone who will and won’t be saved completely, or inherit eternal life.

This brings up the next issue with High or Hyper-Calvinism which is that the notion of salvation as an inheritance is subordinated to the notion of salvation as already received. Justification is what has been received, but salvation proper remains the inheritance not yet received of those predestined.

The bible and the gospel is not a gnostic religion at all. It emphasizes the present, and the future. Past ignorance, and past sin, must not dictate future conduct. The new rule is this:

Act 17:30 “In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.”

It applies to all people, everywhere, all the time.

Have I ever met an Evangelical who said he wasn’t saved? Well, there’s me, haha. I don’t know that I’m sealed because right now I’m caught in sin. I’m certainly not a good person, but I’m trying to be better for my God. If I was to die right now I don’t know what He would say, but I believe He’s looking after me.

I think a lot of Evangelicals question their salvation in the same way that Catholics do. The issue is that we are all sinners, and if we’re smart we’ll recognize that; which leads two different mindsets depending on your Religion. I’ll explain them both:

The Catholic may be caught in sin, and feel the need to constantly repent, then sin again and not had repented yet. It could be a vicious cycle where the Catholic believes he is not saved because he keeps sinning and has lost Salvation. Trying to overcome the sin is hard, and he may feel lost for not repenting and stopping.

The Evangelical (Calvin style) may likewise be caught up in sin, pray for forgiveness and sin again. Likewise while being caught in the same vicious cycle of sin/repent, sin/repent he begins to believe that he was never truly saved. He thinks that he never truly put his full trust in God because by his works he’s not trusting God now, and may be rejected.

Regardless, the guilt is the same. However, I don’t think either Catholics or Evangelicals walk around telling others they believe that they themselves are going to hell.

oh, I guess you are saying they are deceived in thinking they were never made a new creation,…because scripture says that if you sin after you become a new creation in Christ,…“if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness”

they need to confess their sin and receive forgiveness and cleansing,…

I’d like to share a few links having to do with a prominent teaching pastor who is very much a Calvinist.

desiringgod.org/interviews/is-being-born-again-up-to-us
Is being born again up to us? Being born again is not something that we do, it is something that is done to us. Writing a book for the unregenerate on how to be regenerated would be about as useful as a book for babies on how to exit the womb. Make like a baby and head out! There’s some detail about what he had (at one time) hoped God would do with his son- who is now 30, so that is old news by now. There’s also the mystery of God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility, and defining that mystery correctly.

Now link two and three, it is a two-part series on why we need to be born again.
desiringgod.org/sermons/why-do-we-need-to-be-born-again-part-1
desiringgod.org/sermons/why-do-we-need-to-be-born-again-part-2
The main thing here is the inclusion of much evidence that we are dead in our trespasses and what that means for a person who hasn’t been regenerated.
Once finished with those ten items, there is another question- “Why don’t I have spiritual life and why can’t I get it on my own?” Then we get into the Kingdom of Heaven and the results of having spiritual life.

Link 4. desiringgod.org/interviews/is-your-doctrine-of-perseverance-a-contradiction
“Here you have the paradox, if you want to call it that. God is at work in my fulfilling the new covenant promise that I will endure to the end, but my response to that must be that I “work out [my] own salvation with fear and trembling” (2:12).
This is not a contradiction because if I say, “Well, he’s going to do it for me; I don’t need to do it,” then I am simply giving evidence that he is not in me. That’s not a contradiction.
It is both must and will; and if we don’t fulfill the must we are giving evidence of the fact that God is not in us, and the promise that we will persevere doesn’t apply to us.”

Now to your questions: Everyone sins after being saved, it’s more an issue of sinning and having no feelings of remorse that are enforced by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, whose role is related to convicting a person of sin. So if you sin but are not repentant and feel no conviction, this May be part of a Broader Spectrum of evidence that the third person of the Trinity is not indwelling you. This is a softer and more reasonable way of putting it which implies that you are ultimately responsible for evaluating yourself; I know quite well that the issue is too often put in more absolute terms that take such responsibility away from you.

If a person isn’t saved what do you do then? There are options. One is ask God to change that and keep asking until He changes your status. While waiting for that, it is a bit uncomfortable because you go to church and identify as a practicing Christian while at the same time being torn up about your actual status…I’m reasonably familiar with this route. Another option is to become an atheist or agnostic who gives up on that whole thing and asserts that there is no Holy Spirit, at least not one who indwells people, and anyone who believes He does is deceiving themselves. This type of person will not necessarily buy the farm; atheistic/agnostic people (the well-reasoned ones, at least) have a vested interest in demonstrating that they can have morality and ethics apart from religion. Less well reasoned people will act more lazy, and if they are, they probably wouldn’t have made a legit attempt at practicing Christianity to start with.

What of these people who practice Christianity but are not saved or justified, and they know it? I can tell you with some experience, it’s an uncomfortable situation that you don’t go public with. If you talk about it with anyone, you just talk to people very close to you that you trust implicitly and they try to help you through it until God does regenerate you. Sometimes people do give up and stop going to church. Sometimes they quietly drift away, especially if they never talked to anyone. Do they give up on life? Usually not, but a lot of these people who believe in God without practicing organized religion have given up on church on account of lacking a conversion to being a child of God, in the conversionist sense of the term that is central to Evangelicalism. Sometimes people wind up being regenerated later in life though, if they come back and give it another try. It’s nice when that happens.

Oh, I think I follow,…
The bible does clearly say that after people become New Creations in Christ they may and probably will sin,…
This scripture, “if we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”
ALSO
we clearly have the picture from Jesus who told the disciples to forgive 70 x 7, one person, in one day who sins against us that many times, and comes to ask our forgiveness, again,…
so by this Jesus is showing us Our Own forgiveness too, if we come to the Father, and ask forgiveness from Him in Jesus name, even 70 x 7, in one day for the same sin we commit 70 x 7 times, We Will be forgiven.

It would be very wrong to tell someone they weren’t a new creation in Christ because they sin or have a habitual sin they are trying to overcome,…people need help, not condemnation, to over come, esp. if it is habitual and ingrained, ie. sins of the flesh,…
the bible says,
‘don’t make provision for the flesh’.,…ie
make changes in your life that guards you against
sinning flesh sins, ie. if you are single, don’t be alone in private with the opposite, (or same sex, if this is the issue)
very few people have been sexually intimate in public, so this itself is a safeguard,…
…if it is overeating, don’t bring cookies and cake and chips and pop into your house,
make it difficult for yourself to go in that sin direction.
set a guard on your computer, or remove the computer from your house,
if it is pornography,…
etc.

P.S. to above,…

I think you must have been getting at the Calvin debate, you mentioned OSAS above,

there is scripture that says this, “God is Not Willing for Any to Perish”,…
the whole election-thing, I think, can be summed up in this scripture quote,…
God knew before who would and who wouldn’t I believe, so I guess this is Armenian,…

what do the Catholics believe about this? are you Calvinistic or Arminian, actually I have no idea what the Catholics believe about this, I know you are free- will,…you must be Arminian, then?

hi,
I guess Im an Arminian,-what are Catholics? they believe in free will, I have not studied fully both positions, Calvinistic and Arminian, so am not a student of this debate,…
howveer,.
this scripture frees one, “God is not willing that any should perish” This is God’s will concerning all human beings. However, we know people have perished, and will.
God’s will is not always done on the earth, this is why Jesus prayed, ‘Father, your will be done, your kingdom come, etc.’ God’s will is done in heaven, and we all want it done on the earth,…but God has given us choices,…
scripture shows we are helped in our choices, H. Sp., angels, other people sent to us,…inspired to talk to us,…
etc. but God is not ‘controlling’ us.

Now about FEELINGS of being saved, or not, or FEELINGS of remorse for sin,…
I have learned not to depend on them, because they are FICKLE.
example,
We marry and we love our wife,…
next day, we see her without makeup, her hair is a mess,…etc.
we don’t have the same FEELINGS of attraction toward her,…
married love is more mature than that,…it develops over time,…
we love our wife, but don’t always feel that love, sometimes we might even hate
her or rather hate what she does, says, etc. etc.
we can become angry and tell her so,
but underneath, we really still love…

same with our spiritual life,…
spiritual things cannot always be felt,

ie when we first became ba, or received Christ or confirmed our baptism,…or recommitted ourselves to him, we may have felt something or not,
but
that doesn’t matter,
the Truth is in the Holy Scriptures,
the Truth is,…that We are a new creature in Christ Jesus no matter what we feel,
no matter what sins we are committing or trying to overcome,…
we don’t always feel remorse for sin,
sometimes we enjoy it while we do it,
later we are disappointed

sometimes too much WORLD will choke out the H. Sp.'s leading
away from the sin,…
but depending on the feelings is a mistake,…
we must take our salvation from what the bible says,
repent for sin, if you feel like it or not,…
you are a new creation, if you feel like it or not
the scripture Jesus himself gave of forgiving 70 x 7 is how many times we will be forgiven, even for the same sin, in one day alone, when we come to Him and ask,
so believe you are a new creation,

forget about Calvin and Arminia or whoever, and just go with Paul, instead, we know he struggled, and then, we read, 'thanks be to God, ’ he overcame things,…

some sin, I know Catholics say, is more difficult than others to overcome, but
the KEY is NEVER GIVE UP, BECAUSE GOD IS NEVER GIVING UP ON US,…
LOOK AT THE LENGTHS HE WENT TO PROVE IT, THROUGH JESUS,
HE HAS ALREADY GIVEN US HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS,…THE STRUGGLE
WE ENGAGE, IS ON THE EARTH WALK WORKING OUT THAT RIGHTEOUSNESS BUT WE ARE ALREADY DECLARED RIGHTEOUS,

BY THIS SCRIPTURE
HE, WHO KNEW NO SIN, BECAME SIN, FOR US, SO THAT WE COULD BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS.

OUR WALKING OUT FIGHTING AGAINST SIN DAILY, IS ONE HTING, WHILE PROVISIONALLY WE ALREADY HAVE GODS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS AS OUR IDENTITY IN CHRIST. HE GAVE IT TO US, SO

E N J O Y, IT, YOU ARE SAVED, WHILE YOU WALK ALONG AND ARE BEING
SAVED ON THE NATURAL LEVEL TOO,

AND WHO CAN PLUCK YOU OUT OF HIS HAND, OR BETTER PUT, WHO CAN SEPARATE YOU FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, THE ANSWER IS NOTHING AND NO ONE

you defined it clearly above,…
the description you gave is of an awful place to be in your mind and heart, and I think all Christians have been there,…whether bapt.calvin cathol. or whatever,…

this scripture helped me,…Jesus taught the disciples how many times they were required to forgive someone who sinned against them, 70x7 in one day, same guy, if he came and asked,…like us, they were amazed, surely one to three times would be enough,…
after that, getting angry and popping him on the snoz should be acceptable…
This picture shows how many times God is willing to forgive us in the same day, the same sin when we come to Him,
and also
very important,…
we Must apply the same forgiveness to ourselves, when it is us, we ourselves, that has offended us,…when we go to God and receive from Him, sometimes we may not even allow ourselves to go to God because WE JUDGE WRONGFULLY AND CONDEMN OURSELVES,.(FOR EMPHASIS)
We are not allowed to preside over ourselves like this, instead we are to follow Jesus’ own teaching and FORGIVE OURSELVES 70 X 7, whether we feel like it or not, and we Must go to God, because to prevent ourselves from going to God with it, is as wrong as if we did it to another person,…and Jesus REQUIRED OF THEM THAT THEY FORGIVE THAT ONE GUY 70 X 7 IN ONE DAY FOR THE SAME THINGS,
SO HE REQUIRES THAT WE FORGIVE OURSELVES 70 X 7 IN ONE DAY FOR THE SAME THING,…
AND WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PREVENT OURSELVES FROM GOING TO GOD WITH THE SAME THINGS EVEN IF 70 X 7 IN THE SAME DAY FOR THE SAME THINGS

“God’s mercy is new every morning” bible quote,
meaning, God has enough mercy for each and every day, even if it is filled to the brim with every sin on our part, piled high to the max, His forgiveness and mercy is ALWAYS piled higher than that,…

you might say, like Paul then,…because of this marvelous grace, should be just go on sinning then?

a million times no,…

someone who is a new creature will not be satisfied with a life of sin,…anyway,…
because the SEED of the new creation is planted in them, and if it is watered with the Word of God, and the practice of God things and His ways, that seed will grow,…

we are sons of God, his incorruptible SEED (Word of God) has been planted in our spirits, and Christ Within, the Hope of Glory (another pregnancy) is growing inside us.

We also already have the Righteousness of God as belonging to us. We are already DECLARED BY GOD righteous in CHRIST. the earth walk of changing more and more
is a daily grind, but the end result, we already know, that is why the fight of faith
is a GOOD FIGHT!
We know we have ALREADY WON! God made it so, and it is already written.

NET Bible
God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For he who had not known sin made himself to become sin in your place, that we would become the righteousness of God in him.

English Revised Version
Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

Webster’s Bible Translation
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Weymouth New Testament
He has made Him who knew nothing of sin to be sin for us, in order that in Him we may become the righteousness of God.

World English Bible
For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Young’s Literal Translation
for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.

Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary

5:16-21 The renewed man acts upon new principles, by new rules, with new ends, and in new company. The believer is created anew; his heart is not merely set right, but a new heart is given him. He is the workmanship of God, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Though the same as a man, he is changed in his character and conduct. These words must and do mean more than an outward reformation.

The man who formerly saw no beauty in the Saviour that he should desire him, now loves him above all things. The heart of the unregenerate is filled with enmity against God, and God is justly offended with him. Yet there may be reconciliation. Our offended God has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ. By the inspiration of God, the Scriptures were written, which are the word of reconciliation; showing that peace has been made by the cross, and how we may be interested therein. Though God cannot lose by the quarrel, nor gain by the peace, yet he beseeches sinners to lay aside their enmity, and accept the salvation he offers.

Christ knew no sin. He was made Sin; not a sinner, but Sin, a Sin-offering, a Sacrifice for sin. The end and design of all this was, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, might be justified freely by the grace of God through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus. Can any lose, labour, or suffer too much for Him, who gave his beloved Son to be the Sacrifice for their sins, that they might be made the righteousness of God in him?

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 21. - He hath made him to be sin for us; rather, he made; he speaks with definite reference to the cross. The expression is closely analogous to that in Galatians 3:13, where it is said that Christ has been “made a curse for us.”

He was, as St. Augustine says, “delictorum susceptor, non commissor.” He knew no sin; nay, he was the very righteousness, holiness itself (Jeremiah 23:6), and yet, for our benefit, God made him to be “sin” for us, in that he “sent him in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin” (Romans 8:3). Many have understood the word “sin” in the sense of sin offering (Leviticus 5:9, LXX.); but that is a precarious application of the word, which is not justified by any other passage in the New Testament. We cannot, as Dean Plumptre says, get beyond the simple statement, which St. Paul is content to leave in its unexplicable mystery, “Christ identified with man’s sin; man identified with Christ’s righteousness.”

And thus, in Christ, God becomes Jehovah-Tsidkenu, “the Lord our Righteousness”
(this is an extremely important concept not well known by struggling saints.)

(Jeremiah 23:6). That we might be made the righteousness of God in him; rather, that we might become. The best comment on the pregnant significance of this verse is Romans 1:16, 17, which is developed and explained in so large a section of that great Epistle (see 3:22-25; 4:5-8; 5:19, etc.). In him In his blood is a means of propitiation by which the righteousness of God becomes the righteousness of man (1 Corinthians 1:30), so that man is justified. The truth which St. Paul thus develops and expresses is stated by St. Peter and St. John in a simpler and less theological form (1 Peter 2:22-24; 1 John 3:5).

Ps to my evangelical friend,…
I would also like to point out,…
our Father of Faith, much further back in scripture, Abraham

Abraham was DECLARED RIGHTEOUS, THIS IS WHY HE IS OUR FAITH FATHER,.

scripture says, He believed God and it was credited to him AS Righteousness

This is why he is our faith father, because WE MUST DO THE SAME TO BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS,

THE ANSWER IS TO SIMPLY BELIEVE GOD, BELIEVE IT IS SO, BECAUSE

HE S A I D SO, AND HE IS GOD, SO HE MADE IT SO.

WE ARE M A D E RIGHTEOUS, BY HIS DECLARATION, WE HAVE THE POSITION ALREADY,

THE EARTH WALK WITH ITS FIGHT AGAINST SIN DOESNT INTERFERE WITH HIS DECLARATION.

ABRAHAM DID NOTHING GOOD OR BAD TO RECEIVE THE DECLARATION, EXCEPT TO B E L I E V E GOD. GET IT? SAME GOES FOR US,…

BELIEVE, AND YOU WILL RECEIVE, JESUS SAID, JESUS HIMSELF SAID IT, REECORDED IN THE 4 GOSPELS

p.s. to continue on the “being declared righteous” and our believing this by faith,…

Paul writes a lot,…this is a slice of what he says in conjunction with what Ive said.

I write for you all but, I also write it out for myself to see and hear it too,…
its helpful…
in a Nutshell

Flash back to the Eden Garden and the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil,
This tree can be referred to the Law/Sin tree

In Romans, Paul writes that the ONLY way that the knowledge of Sin came,
was through the Law,…and that this is why the LAW was given.

It was given to make Sin apparent,…

The Law and Sin apparent were made to BRING US TO CHRIST,

WHEN WE COME TO CHRIST, BAPTISM IS A PICTURE OF WHAT OCCURS, WITH PAUL MAKING IT CLEAR TO US,…

WE GO DOWN INTO THE WATER, UNDER, DYING WITH JESUS INTO DEATH,
AND WHEN WE ARE DEAD, PAUL WRITES, OUR OLD HUSBAND, MR. LAW,
IS INFORMED OF OUR PASSING, AND OUR CONNECTION WITH HIM IS ENDED.
THEN, AFTER THIS FACT, WE ARE THEN RAISED UP, RESURRECTED IN CHRIST INTO NEW LIFE,
AS WE COME BACK UP OUT OF THE WATER,…WE ARE FREE NOW TO MARRY
ANOTHER,
THE OTHER IS JESUS, AND WE THEN BECOME, MRS. JESUS CHRIST.

BECAUSE OUR OLD MARRIAGE CEASED TO BE WHEN WE DIED, MR. LAW HAS NO MORE ACCESS TO US,…HE HAS NO MORE CLAIM ON US,…
WE ARE FREE, FROM THE LAW,
AND SINCE
SIN CAME BY THE LAW, PAUL WRITES,…
WE ARE ALSO FREE FROM SIN,…
BECAUSE OF OUR NEW HUSBAND, JESUS, WHO IS OURS IN PLACE OF MR. LAW AND SIN.

THIS IS NUTSHELL ROMANS, I BELIEVE.

SIN HAS NO MORE DOMINION, AND WE ARE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS ALONG WITH ABRAHAM, BECAUSE WE BELIEVE GOD WHEN HE TELLS US IT IS SO. THIS IS OUR POSITIONAL PLACE IN CHRIST., WE ARE PURE, HOLY, AND RIGHTEOUS WITH GOD’S OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS ITSELF. ABE WAS CALLED RIGHTEOUS
NOT HAVING DONE ANYTHING RIGHTEOUS AT ALL, EXCEPT BELIVING GOD.

I THINK PAUL WRITES THAT THE LAW AND SIN THAT CAME BY THE LAW ARE DONE AWAY WITH BY CHRIST IN THE CROSS, THAT THE LAW WAS NAILED TO THE TREE,…

THE EARTH WALK IS SECONDARY TO THIS,…

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