Everyone shared in killing Christ


#1

Hi all

I remember going to a non denominational Church maybe 13 years ago that told me "YOU KILLED CHRIST. Because if you never commited a sin in your life, or anyone for that matter, he would not have to have died on the cross for our sins. If even one person could have not sinned in their lifetime, Christ's sacrifice would not have been necissary."

Any thought on this?


#2

For the record, this sect had a lot of cult like characteristics. They did the whole love bombing thing the first week, then immediatly told me that I needed to be baptized (like right then and there) or I would go to hell. So I guess they believe in baptism being neccisary for salvation, but they wanted you to get baptised like after 3 or 4 bible studies. I felt weird going around them so I stopped after a month or two. I cant remember as it has been about 13 or 14 years. I was a teenager at the time.


#3

[quote="LaughingBoy1503, post:1, topic:309595"]
Hi all

I remember going to a non denominational Church maybe 13 years ago that told me "YOU KILLED CHRIST. Because if you never commited a sin in your life, or anyone for that matter, he would not have to have died on the cross for our sins. If even one person could have not sinned in their lifetime, Christ's sacrifice would not have been necissary."

Any thought on this?

[/quote]

Umm ... baloney. In part. It is true enough in that each of us in effect killed Christ by our personal sins.

However ... say you were this mythical sinless person, Jesus would still have had to die for the sins of the rest of humanity, right?

Like the shepherd who leaves the rest of the flock and goes looking for the one lost sheep, I would say that if even just one person HAD sinned, in all of history, Christ would have undergone His passion to give that one sinner a chance of salvation.

Quite the contrary of what you were told, it seems.


#4

[quote="LaughingBoy1503, post:1, topic:309595"]
I remember going to a non denominational Church maybe 13 years ago that told me "YOU KILLED CHRIST. Because if you never commited a sin in your life, or anyone for that matter, he would not have to have died on the cross for our sins.

[/quote]

I agree with this. Isaiah 53:5 states concerning Jesus,

"But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed."

The world bears both an individual and a collective responsibility for the death of Jesus. He is the once and for all sacrifice for sin. When we sin, we no longer have to carry the burden of our sins. We place our sins on Jesus, who is able to carry them.

[quote="LaughingBoy1503, post:1, topic:309595"]
If even one person could have not sinned in their lifetime, Christ's sacrifice would not have been necissary."

[/quote]

This is a moot point. It is impossible. None of us are able to meet the standard of God's holiness apart from Jesus' atonement. If we tried to be saved according to the Law of God apart from grace, we would eventually fail, and thereafter need to rely on Christ's work on the cross.


#5

[quote="LilyM, post:3, topic:309595"]
Umm ... baloney. In part. It is true enough in that each of us in effect killed Christ by our personal sins.

However ... say you were this mythical sinless person, Jesus would still have had to die for the sins of the rest of humanity, right?

Like the shepherd who leaves the rest of the flock and goes looking for the one lost sheep, I would say that if even just one person HAD sinned, in all of history, Christ would have undergone His passion to give that one sinner a chance of salvation.

Quite the contrary of what you were told, it seems.

[/quote]

I hear you. That is another thing though. They told me that If I would have never sinned in my life, Christ would not have had to die at all! Neither for me or for anyone else. From what I remember... One person not ever sinning in their lifetime would have made Christs sacrifice not necissary for Mine, yours or anyones salvation. They never explained why, or if they did I do not remember what they told me. LOL. They were a strange bunch though.


#6

The only sinless creature to have existed was Mary, the Virgin Mother. And that special state was given her on account of her son's future sacrifice! E£ven if the whole human race had never sinned after Adam, Jesus would still have been needed to overcome the effects of even just the one sin. Man alone is too weak.

We concur with the death of Jesus each & every Good Friday, by way of re-enactment at the 3p.m. service. Yes, by His stripes we have been healed.


#7

[quote="LaughingBoy1503, post:1, topic:309595"]
Hi all

I remember going to a non denominational Church maybe 13 years ago that told me "YOU KILLED CHRIST. Because if you never commited a sin in your life, or anyone for that matter, he would not have to have died on the cross for our sins. If even one person could have not sinned in their lifetime, Christ's sacrifice would not have been necissary."

Any thought on this?

[/quote]

Well their theology has more holes than a swiss cheese.
Even if I had never sinned in my whole life there still remains that little affair at the Garden to settle.
After the fall ALL humanity shares in the "Original Sin" and even if we did not have also "personal sin" Jesus still would have needed to come to clean us of that one.
Baptism clean us primarily of that one sin, that is why WE Catholics baptize infants, the priest through the sacrament of reconciliation and penance (Confession) cleans "personal sins" when the age of reason arrives.


#8

[quote="LaughingBoy1503, post:1, topic:309595"]
I remember going to a non denominational Church maybe 13 years ago that told me "YOU KILLED CHRIST. Because if you never commited a sin in your life, or anyone for that matter, he would not have to have died on the cross for our sins. If even one person could have not sinned in their lifetime, Christ's sacrifice would not have been necissary."

[/quote]

Here is the problem with that statement: it creates a condition ("you killed Christ"), and then creates the reason for that condition (the "because"), and that reason is if someone never committed a sin in our life, Christ wouldn't have died on the cross for the sins of others. This is reiterated in the next part with the idea that if one person never sinned, Christ's sacrifice wouldn't be necessary.

The major problem is this deals with a scenario that could never happen - the sinless person. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (cf. Rom 3:23) - scripture is crystal clear on that. Everyone from Adam to Moses to Elijah to Jeremiah to yes, even the Virgin Mary, was a sinner. This isn't a matter of contention to begin with. Find me one sinless person besides Christ, and I'll sell you some oceanfront property in Wyoming.

Now it's true that Christ died for the sins of his people, and so in that sense you could say that the cause for the crucifixion was our sinful state which required justification before the Father, and which the Son gave himself to accomplish, but taking it to this extreme of saying if a sinless person ever lived the crucifixion wouldn't have happened is mixing soteriology and edifying no one.


#9

[quote="Byzantine_Wolf, post:8, topic:309595"]
Here is the problem with that statement: it creates a condition ("you killed Christ"), and then creates the reason for that condition (the "because"), and that reason is if someone never committed a sin in our life, Christ wouldn't have died on the cross for the sins of others. This is reiterated in the next part with the idea that if one person never sinned, Christ's sacrifice wouldn't be necessary.

The major problem is this deals with a scenario that could never happen - the sinless person. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (cf. Rom 3:23) - scripture is crystal clear on that. Everyone from Adam to Moses to Elijah to Jeremiah to yes, even the Virgin Mary, was a sinner. This isn't a matter of contention to begin with. Find me one sinless person besides Christ, and I'll sell you some oceanfront property in Wyoming.

Now it's true that Christ died for the sins of his people, and so in that sense you could say that the cause for the crucifixion was our sinful state which required justification before the Father, and which the Son gave himself to accomplish, but taking it to this extreme of saying if a sinless person ever lived the crucifixion wouldn't have happened is mixing soteriology and edifying no one.

[/quote]

Can't agree with everything you wrote BW, but it's good to have you back on CAF.
:thumbsup:


#10

[quote="JustaServant, post:9, topic:309595"]
Can't agree with everything you wrote BW, but it's good to have you back on CAF.
:thumbsup:

[/quote]

Blame jakasaki for bringing the wolf in from the cold.


#11

[quote="LaughingBoy1503, post:1, topic:309595"]
Hi all

I remember going to a non denominational Church maybe 13 years ago that told me "YOU KILLED CHRIST. Because if you never commited a sin in your life, or anyone for that matter, he would not have to have died on the cross for our sins. If even one person could have not sinned in their lifetime, Christ's sacrifice would not have been necissary."

Any thought on this?

[/quote]

Jesus came to help sinners

10f “See that you do not despise one of these little ones,* for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father.
11()*
12g What is your opinion? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills and go in search of the stray?
13And if he finds it, amen, I say to you, he rejoices more over it than over the ninety-nine that did not stray.
14In just the same way, it is not the will of your heavenly Father that one of these little ones be lost.

Hope this helps
Merry Christmas
God bless You


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