Evidence that Jesus is not GOD and should not be worshipped.


#1

Warning from Jesus in the bible for the lip service Christianity, the lip service following.

Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’"

Evidence that Jesus is not GOD and should not be worshipped.

Hit the road Jack and never come back no more,no more no more.What you say?

Peace


#2

How is that evidence? It appears he’s attacking those who’s actions differ from their words: they claim to worship God in words, but not in deeds.


#3

So, do Muslims believe the bible is corrupted or not? When it serves your purpose, you use it. When it doesn’t you say it’s corrupted. What gives?

Can I just say that the Catholic bishops who set the Canon at Carthage and Hippo would not have accepted any text as inspired if it denied the divinity of Christ. You are not going to find anything in our bible that contradicts his divinity. Seriously.

Let’s look at what some of the early Church Fathers say about Christ’s divinity - all before the Canon is set and Matthew deemed inspired:

Ignatius of Antioch

"Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father** in Jesus Christ **our God (*Epistle to the Ephesians *1 [A.D. 110]).

Ignatius of Antioch

"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit (Epistle to the Ephesians 18:2).

Ignatius of Antioch

". . . to the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is (Epistle to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).

Aristides

“[Christians] are they who, above every people of the Earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit” (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).

Tatian

We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).

Melito

“It is no way necessary in dealing with persons of intelligence to adduce the actions of Christ after his baptism as proof that his soul and his body, his human nature, were like ours, real and not phantasmal. The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism; of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity,** although he was the true God existing before the ages**” (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s, The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).


#4

Irenaeus

"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the Earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and Earth and sea and all that is in them; and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who announced through the prophets the dispensations and the comings, and the birth from a Virgin, and the passion, and the Resurrection from the dead, and the bodily Ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus our Lord, and his coming from heaven in the glory of the Father to re-establish all things; and the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on Earth and under the earth . . " (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 180]).

Irenaeus

“Nevertheless, what cannot be said of anyone else who ever lived, that he is himself in his own right God and Lord . . . may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth” (Against Heresies 3:19:1).

Tertullian

“God alone is without sin. The only man who is without sin is Christ; for Christ is also God” (*The Soul *41:3 [A.D. 208]).

Tertullian

“The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born…” (The Flesh of Christ 5:6-7 [A.D. 208]).

Hippolytus of Rome

For Christ is the God over all, who has arranged to wash away sin from mankind, rendering the old man new” (*Philosophoumena *10:34).

Clement of Alexandria

“The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning, for he was in God, and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things” (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [ante A.D. 200]).

Clement of Alexandria

“Despised as to appearance but in reality adored, [Jesus is] the Expiator, the Savior, the Soother, the Divine Word, he that is quite evidently true God, he that is put on a level with the Lord of the universe because he was his Son.” (*Exhortation to the Greeks *10:110:1).

Origen

Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was, God” (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:Preface:4 [A.D. 220-230]).

Origen

While we have been sketching the proof of the divinity of Jesus, we have made use of the prophetic statements concerning him, and have at the same time demonstrated that the writings which prophesied about him are divinely inspired” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:1:6).

Cyprian

"One who denies that Christ is God cannot become his temple [of the Holy Spirit] . . . " (Letter to Jubaianus 73:12 [A.D. 255])


#5

The above quotes from early Christians were all written before the books were “set” in the New Testament which took place in the late 4th and early 5th centuries at the Councils of Carthage and Hippo. If something in the texts denied Jesus’ divinity - it would not have been chosen as a text inspired by God by the bishops. Guaranteed. Nothing in the Bible contradicts what the Church teaches - Christ’s divinity included.


#6

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[FONT=Century Gothic]
HOW COULD YOU EVEN SAY THAT CHRIST IS NOT GOD?!

!!!


#7

[quote=LRThunder]How is that evidence? It appears he’s attacking those who’s actions differ from their words: they claim to worship God in words, but not in deeds.
[/quote]

Please read and analyze:
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men

Jesus prophesied that people will worship him in vain instead worship God alone and their teachings are taught by men.
Referring to the men changing Gods word "the bible"
This is agreeing with what Islam say about the bible that it has been corrupted my men.

Peace.


#8

[quote=katriz27]:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[FONT=Century Gothic]
HOW COULD YOU EVEN SAY THAT CHRIST IS NOT GOD?!

!!!
Because Jesus himself say that.

Matthew 19:16 Jesus said “Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD”?

Peace.
[/quote]


#9

[quote=gurrato alaien]Because Jesus himself say that.

Matthew 19:16 Jesus said “Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD”?

Peace.
[/quote]

He also said that “nobody comes to the Father, except through me.”

If he wasn’t God, then he would still be in the tomb and our hope would be in vain.


#10

[quote=Eden]So, do Muslims believe the bible is corrupted or not? When it serves your purpose, you use it. When it doesn’t you say it’s corrupted. What gives?

Can I just say that the Catholic bishops who set the Canon at Carthage and Hippo would not have accepted any text as inspired if it denied the divinity of Christ. You are not going to find anything in our bible that contradicts his divinity. Seriously.

.
[/quote]

Yes we believe that the bible has been corrupted, we don’t have problem with verses that agree 100% with Islam. Especially why we try to prove some thing to you.
And that quote agrees with Islam:

Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’"

because we believe that Christians make Jesus God in vain

Peace.


#11

[quote=gurrato alaien]Warning from Jesus in the bible for the lip service Christianity, the lip service following.

Matthew 15:
7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 " ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’"

Evidence that Jesus is not GOD and should not be worshipped.

Hit the road Jack and never come back no more,no more no more.What you say?

Peace
[/quote]

Give us a verse that shows this phrase “Christ is not God”. I’m sure you can’t find. This verse actually means “Christ is God”.


#12

[quote=LRThunder]He also said that “nobody comes to the Father, except through me.”

If he wasn’t God, then he would still be in the tomb and our hope would be in vain.
[/quote]

You can understand that if you believe that Jesus was a prophet and through his teachings he will guide you to the God.


#13

[quote=dlpadura]Give us a verse that shows this phrase “Christ is not God”. I’m sure you can’t find. This verse actually means “Christ is God”.
[/quote]

Matthew 19:16 Jesus said “Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD”?

clearly he said I am not a God.


#14

[quote=gurrato alaien]Matthew 19:16 Jesus said “Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD”?

clearly he said I am not a God.
[/quote]

That’s actually verse 17 and it did not show that Christ is not God but see verse 18 ands 19 Christ commanded to obey the law " which only God commanded see Exodo 17:1-20. This means Christ is God.


#15

Gurrato, there are many many MANY threads here already discussing this topic - you should know, you’ve contributed enough to them. You don’t appear to have anything at all new to say about the subject, why are you bringing it up yet again?

Your ‘evidence’ is hardly unknown to us, it’s the same ‘evidence’ that non-believers have been using since the time that Jesus walked the earth - in other words 600 years before Mohammed and Islam. Neither are the Bible verses that you quoted anything new to us - after all it WAS Christian believers who wrote them.

Our replies to your ‘evidence’ should hardly be anything new to you either, every single one of them has been in use just as long. We know what we believe, and we know why we believe it. None of us is going to convince the other of the rightness of our argument if we haven’t done so already.

Follow the example of your fellow muslim Emad, who had the good sense to know a fruitless, circular round of arguing when he (she?) was part of one, and found more useful things to devote his/her(?) energies to.


#16

I have not seen these verses in this board before.


#17

[quote=gurrato alaien]I have not seen these verses in this board before.
[/quote]

You mean Eden’s verses from the Early Church Fathers? I’m sure if you’d done a search you probably would have found them.


#18

[quote=gurrato alaien]Matthew 19:16 Jesus said “Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD”?

clearly he said I am not a God.
[/quote]

Could somobdy explain this to me,it almost makes me feel as jesus is denying his divinity?


#19

[quote=godsent]Could somobdy explain this to me,it almost makes me feel as jesus is denying his divinity?
[/quote]

I think Jesus is in fact STATING his divinity but being cautious about it for fear of being prosecuted for blasphemy.

Instead he leaves it to those around him to put two and two together … ‘you call me good, and no-one is good but God, therefore …’


#20

[quote=LilyM]You mean Eden’s verses from the Early Church Fathers? I’m sure if you’d done a search you probably would have found them.
[/quote]

No I meant my first post, I have not seen it before in this board, that’s why I post it


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