Evidences of the Holy Spirit?


#1

I have an apologetics challenge I’m having difficulty with. I thought the Catechism had a list of evidences of the Holy Spirit, and gifts of the Holy Spirit. I can’t remember where I saw those lists, along with their scriptural basis’.

There is a Charismatic Catholic I like to converse with and he believes that the only evidence that shows you have the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. It does not help that he seems poorly-Catechised.

I appreciate the assistance. :slight_smile:


#2

There are the gifts of the Holy Spirit:

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The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.109 They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations.

and the fruits of the Holy Spirit:

**
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The fruits of the Spirit are perfections that the Holy Spirit forms in us as the first fruits of eternal glory. The tradition of the Church lists twelve of them: “charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity.”**

Is that what you’re looking for?


#3

That is typical of the pride and arrogance of many charismatics. I recently posted my experience in another thread.
I (with other Catholic friends) attended a Life in the Spirit meeting and the leader of the charismatic group went on stage and declared to everyone that the ONLY way to communicate with the Holy Spirit is by speaking “gibberish” tongues, and that tongues was the only language an exorcism could be conducted in.
Frankly we were shocked by their attitude. In the following days we spoke to a number of priests who all told us what these charismatics said was rubbish and not to believe them.
Unfortunately these charismatic groups do not seem to be supervised by priests and they are simply making up their own theology. They should be stopped as this is doing the Church harm.


#4

The FRUITS of the Holy Spirit are found in Galatians 5, vs 22.

The GIFTS of the Holy Spirit are found in Isaiah 11, vss 2-3.

The supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit commonly called the Charisms, one of which is tongues, are found in 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14.


#5

No wonder I couldn’t find the Evidences of the Holy Spirit list. Its titled under FRUITS of the Holy Spirit. I feel like a dunce now. :smiley:

Thank you, everyone. I now have those 2 lists, where they’re found in the CCC, and where they’re found in the Bible. This is great. :slight_smile: Now I’ll be able to email him.

Though it was off-topic, I appreciated being told his belief is not unusual among Charismatic Catholics. He’s my first encounter with them. I was a bit more familiar with Pentecostals, so it was still new waters. I do have to agree, though…without meaning to, they are doing the Church harm. :frowning: They need much prayer.


#6

Just tell him,

“Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus be cursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:3)

So speaking in tongues is not the only evidence that shows you have the Holy Spirit.

I can understand your situation. I am myself a part of the Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church. It is supervised by our local Bishop in our area.

I myself received the gift of tongues many years ago, but I have as yet not understood their interpretation, so I don’t pray frequently in toungues. Paul says that those who have the gift of tongues should pray that they may be able to interpret it (1 Cor 14:13).

That Charismatic guy must be proud of his gift of speaking in tongues. But point out to him that God gives different gifts to different people, as the scripture says,

“To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.” (1 Cor 12:8-11)

Different people have different gifts, as Paul says,

“Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?” (1 Cor 12:29-30)

“What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.” (1 Cor 14:26)


#7

Well, atleast in our area, the Charismatic group is supervised by the Bishop. Please don’t form a negative impression in your mind about the Charismatic Renewal because of these people who are puffed up with pride.

I remember, once **a Charismatic priest warned **me about such people that **they have the gifts **of the Spirit, **but they do not exibit the fruit **of the Spirit which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. (Gal 5:22)


#8

Unfortunately my own experience and experiences of many people I know in several countries is so negative I really don’t see these groups as doing the Church any good.


#9

mine has been the opposite, because most of those from earlier days of the CCR have long since gone on to the next best latest thing, since they were in it only for the novelty and self-satisfaction of it. Those who have remained are among the most faithful and orthodox Catholic teachers, catechists, apostles, priests and sisters I know. Far more of them exhibit the charisms listed by Paul as the more important, if less spectacular, than tongues, esp. preaching, teaching and administration.

If tongues were essential Paul would not have called it the least important. I believe however that gift is exhibited frequently in those who do their ecclesial work in the power of the Holy Spirit, namely being able to communicate, preach and teach in bilingual or multilingual cultures and settings. Those who seek the charisms for their own selfish purposes will not last long in ecclesial ministry. Those who accept and use them for the purpose intended–building up the Church–find they work in accord with the gifts and produce the fruits. One cannot separate or dictate the actions of the Holy Spirit


#10

for anyone with genuine interest in finding out what the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is and what it is not, here is a good site
ccc.garg.com/
you do have to register to join discussion forums
check out the FAQs


#11

I also know some like this also. I think that when I read about John Paul II saying that he approved of them that was all I needed to believe that many of them are faithful, good Catholics.
I think it is sad when people say that they speak “gibberish”, many of them truly have the gift of speaking in tongues. (If I ever find the article I read about John Paul again I will post it.)


#12

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