Evolution chat...


#1

:confused: Good morning everyone. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on speaking with people who believe in Evolution. They believe in God, but state that Evolution is true as well.

Thanks have a great day
Randy


#2

[quote=Randell]:confused: Good morning everyone. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on speaking with people who believe in Evolution. They believe in God, but state that Evolution is true as well.

Thanks have a great day
Randy
[/quote]

Well, as one of those people you want to speak to, I would suggest you treat me just like you would anyone else.:slight_smile:

Peace

Tim


#3

[quote=Randell]:confused: Good morning everyone. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on speaking with people who believe in Evolution. They believe in God, but state that Evolution is true as well.

Thanks have a great day
Randy
[/quote]

ANd according to the Catechism, and statements by John Paul II, the two are not mutually exclusive, as long as any theory of evolution does not deny God’s involvement.


#4

I have always viewed that God created EVERYTHING . We do know that species adapt or change over time by God’s design. So if evolution ever seals up the huge holes that are in it, it is still a plan that God created. No matter how anyone slices it, God is the creator of all.


#5

If the fact that there is no proof at all that evolution is true, and even Stephen Gould one of the biggest evolution pimps of all time are doubting the idea doesn’t sway them, then nothing will.


#6

Today the argument is a limited to two. What about this - God “inserted” (created) man and women and stuck them in the timeline wherever He wanted. Would any evolutionary “discovery” be able to prove this did or din’t happened. Since man is a rational animal and animals greatly populate the earth with us the evidence could point to what we perceive as evolution, but God put us right where he wanted.


#7

As a quick follow-up to my first post, if you want to discuss the scientific reasons for accepting evolution, please understand that misstatements don’t help your argument. For example, the term “theory” in a scientific sense is not the same as in the general language. Make sure you understand the difference.

The science is rarely if ever as simplistic as it may appear in the popular press. The fact is, a lot of research and studying and discussion has gone into those things we as scientists accept.

I hope this helps.

Peace

Tim


#8

Buffalo << What about this - God “inserted” (created) man and women and stuck them in the timeline wherever He wanted. >>

That’s a possibility, and that can be reconciled with both the science and theology. I’ve seen you mention this before, nice idea. Here it is layed out in an article on Adam/Eve by the ASA3.org group

In Search of Historical Adam Part 1

In Search of Historical Adam Part 2

This guy (Dick Fischer) also has a book on the subject which looks promising (he respects science and a literal understanding of Adam/Eve both)

The Origins Solution

We can say we trace ourselves back to these two folks who had bodies and souls. The others (bodies, but no souls) would have died off. Sort of a compromise between monogenism and polygenism.

I’m picking up the John Haught book now Responses to 101 Questions on God and Evolution so all my problems and questions will soon be solved (maybe) :stuck_out_tongue:

Phil P


#9

As a humorous offering, food for thought:

What if God has planted all this “suppposed evidence” (Still all a theory- as my Christin denominational friends always point out.) just to fool us up… I sometimes wonder if there were ever dinosaurs… God did create the world after all… He could have definitely planted some interesting clues to our origins…

I spend one week in firm support of the traditional Genesis story and the next week hailing the miracles of science (science created by God!)… However, I usually try to figure out the daily complexities of my usually simple life instead of dwelling on evolution vs. “Creation”…


#10

We need to understand that EVOLUTION is not science and should not be taught in schools around the world. It should be banned. And all textbooks and all science books that contain the word “evolution” should be replaced to " interralation". All species with respect to their kinds are interralating, not evolving. This is the fact that darwin and all evolutionists are afraid to reveal.

Evolution also is an origin of species theory that states that all humans had evolved from chimps, and of course, FIRST species had evolved from the non-living sea.

TO replace evolution theory in schols, we need to use “INTERRELATED THEORY” that states that all species are changing with respect to their times and places of living. In fact, all species are interrelating.

What Pope had proclaimed that evolution may be the work of God was also one of Satan’s trick. A dangerous claim by Catholic Church. catholic Church had also claimed before that the earth was the center and the sun revolves around it. A false scientific claim.

So, we need to replace EVOLUTION by INTERRELATION.


#11

pend << We need to understand that EVOLUTION is not science and should not be taught in schools around the world. It should be banned. >>

I take this post as somewhat humorous? :smiley: Interrelation? :confused: Evolution is “descent with modification by natural selection.” Here is your more detailed TalkOrigins definition, with the supporting evidence, and why God and evolution are compatible.

Phil P


#12

I would agreee with trelow. There is no Proof that evolution has been proven. Infact, I believe that there is a LAW in thermodynamics that states that nothing can improve itself without help.

You cant put a knife on a table an come back 1000 years later and it is a knife. It would be returned to matter from which it was made.

What improvements have humans made to show that evolution is happening?


#13

[quote=Randell]I would agreee with trelow. There is no Proof that evolution has been proven.
[/quote]

As I noted in my previous post, be carefull arguing science if you don’t have at least a basic understanding of how science works. Your argument isn’t persuasive because it is nonsensical from a scientific perspective.

Infact, I believe that there is a LAW in thermodynamics that states that nothing can improve itself without help.

Have you checked this out? Have you tried to educate yourself as to whether or not this is true?

You cant put a knife on a table an come back 1000 years later and it is a knife. It would be returned to matter from which it was made.

Not sure what that has to do with evolution, but I would say that it is not necessarily a true statement.

What improvements have humans made to show that evolution is happening?

I’m not sure what you are saying here.

Peace

Tim


#14

If you believe that lightning struck a puddle of water and them millions and billions of years later (once upon a time) you have something as complex as a human. Wait. even as complex as a stinking cornea (check it out, amazing stuff), then you are insane.


#15

[quote=Trelow]If you believe that lightning struck a puddle of water and them millions and billions of years later (once upon a time) you have something as complex as a human. Wait. even as complex as a stinking cornea (check it out, amazing stuff), then you are insane.
[/quote]

I agree.


#16

[quote=Orogeny]As I noted in my previous post, be carefull arguing science if you don’t have at least a basic understanding of how science works. Your argument isn’t persuasive because it is nonsensical from a scientific perspective.
I am an Engineering major…so yes I do have some idea. All your doing here is arguing just to argue. You have presented no data to show evolution does exist. You can’t even spell…so what makes you authority (careful not carefull)

Everything returns to its original state. In the case of the fork…whatever matter that made it originally. A fork will never
become a knife without something acting to change its identity.

My point is God is the “behind the senes force” we don’t just change over time.

Name something that has evolved with scientific proof. Don’t just write back and instigate an argument by saying I know nothing about his topic. I do NOT see you providing any information other than what you’re probably parroting from some other source.

Peace

Tim
[/quote]


#17

Rendell,

Thank you for the thoughful reply, especially regarding my spelling. Good point. Good luck in your search for scientific proof. By the way, how do we, you know, us scientists, prove a scientific theory?

You obviously, being an engineering major, have a great wealth of scientific understanding. I apologize for having wasted your time.

Peace

Tim

ps - Regarding the fork into a knife analogy. I must say that is the first time I have heard that used to refute evolution.


#18

Orogeny,

This is the first thread on which I have seen a post by you. Is the accent in your name on the “rog” or the “gen” ?

In every H.S. or Freshman Chemistry textbook I have seen, somewhere about the forth Chapter we see and Chapter Title, “ATOMIC THEORY”. I see you have made “a do” of Scientific Theory, Proof of a Scientific Theory , etc. Do you actually believe atoms exist?

Are you going to tell us that Evolution has been “proven”?
Will you restrict “your” Evolution to certain Geological Ages?

Please, I am curious in your bottom line. I asked 3 questions.


#19

Now of course evolution has been proven. However, the answer will depend on who you ask. Evolution is about as diverse a school of thought as Christianity is.

[quote=Exporter]Orogeny,

This is the first thread on which I have seen a post by you. Is the accent in your name on the “rog” or the “gen” ?

In every H.S. or Freshman Chemistry textbook I have seen, somewhere about the forth Chapter we see and Chapter Title, “ATOMIC THEORY”. I see you have made “a do” of Scientific Theory, Proof of a Scientific Theory , etc. Do you actually believe atoms exist?

Are you going to tell us that Evolution has been “proven”?
Will you restrict “your” Evolution to certain Geological Ages?

Please, I am curious in your bottom line. I asked 3 questions.
[/quote]


#20

Trelow << Wait. even as complex as a stinking cornea (check it out, amazing stuff), then you are insane. >>

Well then these people are insane. And they should stop studying this stuff, read Genesis, and conclude God did it by special direct creation a few thousand (young earth creationism) or a few million (old earth creationism) years ago, Right? That’s your alternative “scientific” theory right? :o

Evolution of the Eye

Dan-Eric Nilsson and The Lund Vision Group

Looney tunes all of them. :smiley:

Of course its not lightening to eye directly , there are a couple billion intermediate steps. :smiley: And I’m sure Hecd2 and Oregony will fill you in, along with The Lund Vision Group if you Email them…

Phil P


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