Evolution refuting catholicism?


#21

Catholicism has always been a friend of science. In 1933 a Catholic Priest theorized the “Big Bang” of which Einstein thought was the most beautiful explanation of creation he ever heard.

At the time it was very hard to digest because science at the time thought that the universe had no beginning. This was an afront to materialism.

How does this apply to evolution? It is a real problem to those who argue for atheistic evolution. Today’s evolutionists are basing their conclusions on one branch of science, rather than incorporating cosmology which has been able to look much deeper.


#22

[quote=St3746]So if evolution were to be proven true tomorrow, how would God threatened?

Can someone explain to me why so many people feel threatened by science? :confused:
[/quote]

No matter what the theory of evolution shows cosmology has eclipsed it in the search for God. That is where to look as it deals with the whole universe not just origins on earth. It deals with the fundamental laws, those laws of which life depends on.

Don’t waste time with atheistic evolution arguments as they seem to be rapidly being discarded.


#23

Well, I’m not a scientist, but I’m married to a Catholic scientist/professor (yes, Virginia, there is such a thing!)

What many of you seem to be confusing is Origin of Life and Evolution. 2 different topics. I don’t pretend to understand these things, as I was a music major in college. LOL. But it seems to me and my understanding that there is nothing about evolution that is against the Church’s teachings. Now, various scientists do wish to push their own agenda of no God, but that has nothing to do with the Theory, really. There are people on the other side of the debate that refuse to acknowlege that scientists might know a thing or 2 about their field of study…sigh This debate gets old and tiresome, really.
Jennifer


#24

[quote=Jennifer J]Well, I’m not a scientist, but I’m married to a Catholic scientist/professor (yes, Virginia, there is such a thing!)

What many of you seem to be confusing is Origin of Life and Evolution. 2 different topics. I don’t pretend to understand these things, as I was a music major in college. LOL. But it seems to me and my understanding that there is nothing about evolution that is against the Church’s teachings. Now, various scientists do wish to push their own agenda of no God, but that has nothing to do with the Theory, really. There are people on the other side of the debate that refuse to acknowlege that scientists might know a thing or 2 about their field of study…sigh This debate gets old and tiresome, really.
Jennifer
[/quote]

\

Not entirely true. The Church teaches that Eve came from Adam. That is not what evolution proposes.

DID WOMAN EVOLVE FROM THE BEASTS?
A DEFENSE OF TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC DOCTRINE


#25

Our knowledge of God is not perfect, and our knowledge of science is not perfect.

Neither will be perfect in this world.

When you speculate on how your fallible understanding of science might conflict with your fallible understanding of God, exactly what is accomplished?

St. Thomas Aquinas took it as axiomatic that the truth of science could not contradict God’s being. If they appear to be in conflict, then either you misunderstand the natural world, or you misunderstand God.

Is it so difficult to admit that our powers of understanding are deeply inadequate due to our fallen state?


#26

[quote=Origen]Our knowledge of God is not perfect, and our knowledge of science is not perfect.

Neither will be perfect in this world.

When you speculate on how your fallible understanding of science might conflict with your fallible understanding of God, exactly what is accomplished?

St. Thomas Aquinas took it as axiomatic that the truth of science could not contradict God’s being. If they appear to be in conflict, then either you misunderstand the natural world, or you misunderstand God.

Is it so difficult to admit that our powers of understanding are deeply inadequate due to our fallen state?
[/quote]

Amen.


#27

Hello,

It’s amazing how many people are sure about something without having any real evidence. George Sim Johnston’s “Did Darwin Get it Right?” is a great book that shows the holes in the very speculative theory of evolution. Even if evolution is true, however, the very existence of creation is something that can only be explained by a Creator. How God chose to bring everything about will be revealed to us when we stand before Him. Also, in the last few years, with the ability to test DNA, real scientific processes have revealed that the CroMagnon “Man” and the Neanderthal “Man” can in no way be our ancestors. A search on the internet will provide the Scientific journals that attest to this.

Hope this helps,

God’s grace and peace be with you.


#28

Don’t be afraid.

Don’t worry about it.

What ever method God allowed to happen…GOD DID IT!


#29

Polygenism and Catholic theology about a single set of parents are not at odds. Catholic thinking does not require monogenism. It does require a couple who were created in the image of God who are our mother and father.

Adam and Eve were the first parents created in the image of God. There were other savages and such running around. After all, who did the descendants of Adam mate with?

Adam and these non-graced humans all had genetic structure but only Adam and Eve and their descendants were “in the image of God” and had eternal souls.

I assume that eventually the others “not in the image of God” died out in a kind of natural selection as having a Soul in the image of God would be the ultimate in species advantages.

Anyway, that’s my belief.


#30

With their siblings as it was necessary to procreate.


#31

In the land of Nod?
This siblings idea is not dogmatic. I think it makes more sense that there were a type of proto-man with animal souls.
I’ve never been comfortable with the idea of instituted incest.


#32

ianraygor << real scientific processes have revealed that the CroMagnon “Man” and the Neanderthal “Man” can in no way be our ancestors >>

Neandertal no, as they apparently lived with modern humans (< 100,000 years ago). The Cro-magnon from what I understand are our species, they were homo sapiens living about 40,000 - 50,000 years ago. Here is a brief summary on Neandertals and other creatures from Christopher Stringer.

The better candidates are these

And don’t forget my link in another thread to these excellent NCSE articles

I’ve seen the George Sim Johnston articles in Envoy from a few years back, a bit simplisitic for my taste. His critique of evolution is very weak. Envoy actually printed a couple very good rebuttals (along with Johnston’s weak reply) in a subsequent issue.

Try Kenneth Miller’s Finding Darwin’s God for your best defense of evolution by a Catholic biologist. He doesn’t deal with the Genesis, Adam/Eve or doctrinal questions, which is what I hope John Haught’s book tackles explicitly.

Phil P


#33

Amen.


#34

SocCatholic << Amen. >>

And my one word response to DaveFilmer’s post is: cr-p. :smiley:

Please, you anti-evolutionists aren’t getting anywhere misunderstanding the science. If evolution is wrong, what is the alternative? I’m sorry but “God did it” is not a scientific alternative. Although I myself believe “God did it” somehow, someway (using macroevolution), the statement “God did it” cannot be measured, tested, observed, or falsified by science. Evolution can and here is the evidence. What you anti-evolutionists need to do is tear down all that evidence, and put up something scientific in its place that explains the data and observations of nature, genetics, and the fossil record better. That’s the challenge. :stuck_out_tongue:

Phil P


#35

Our knowledge of God is not perfect, and our knowledge of science is not perfect.

And, we don’t even know ourselves!


#36

[quote=PhilVaz]SocCatholic << Amen. >>

And my one word response to DaveFilmer’s post is: cr-p. :smiley:

Please, you anti-evolutionists aren’t getting anywhere misunderstanding the science. If evolution is wrong, what is the alternative? I’m sorry but “God did it” is not a scientific alternative. Although I myself believe “God did it” somehow, someway (using macroevolution), the statement “God did it” cannot be measured, tested, observed, or falsified by science. Evolution can and here is the evidence. What you anti-evolutionists need to do is tear down all that evidence, and put up something scientific in its place that explains the data and observations of nature, genetics, and the fossil record better. That’s the challenge. :stuck_out_tongue:

Phil P
[/quote]

The problem I have is how a billion years of death and climatic chaos can be when according to scripture God Created everything perfect and death and chaos did not enter the world UNTIL the sin of our first parents.So God is the Creator of death and chaos for billions of years when there was supposed to be Paradise.When was Paradise around? And was Adam and Eve born from pre-humans? This all goes against what St.Paul wrote about creation,Adam being a person and Jesus being the second Adam.I don’t know… My faith is being a little rocked here by reading all those posts on evolution and all the contradictions that come with it when it pertains to one set of parents and original sin,etc.


#37

Hi Brown10985,

I hesitate to recommend the website of Robert Sungenis but he has a lot to say about Geocentrism and I think he gets into Evolution. Some of his books are great but some of his articles on the faith are questionable. Anyway, Look here for a possible source on the discussion of Evolution: catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles.htm#8

May God bless,

James224


#38

Your example is flawed. No scientist believes that evolution is driven by random chance. Rather, advantageous changes build upon each other. You really ought to acquaint yourself with evolutionary science before attempting to discredit it.
I’m not really prepared to discuss this right now but I would like to ask a couple of questions in response to this.

It is my understanding that organisms–such as that first single cell of life–as I believe the evolutionary science would say was the starting point–are genetically programed to reproduce themselves exactly–thats what they do. If it doesn’t reproduce itself exactly–then a random mutation has occurred and this random mutation could either kill the cell, make it more viable, or be neutral in effect. Now it takes millions if not billions of these random mutations (which are contrary to the genetic programing of the cell) to create something new–say a fish.

So under evolutionary science every species is the result of random fluke mutations in the genetic code?

It’s nice to say advantageous changes build upon each other–and that seems to explain the development of a particular species–but it seems that it doesn’t really account for all the various species we have and all those that have gone extinct. With the vast amount of species you would think at least one transitional species would have popped up in the fossile record–has one?

Does anyone out there know when all the various species came into existence? I wouldn’t think you would see a lot of new species poping up close to each other in time–but only very gradually. What does the existing fossile evidence tell us?

That said --if evolution were proven tomorrow–would it disprove the existence of God? Why couldn’t God use evolution as his means of creation or why couldn’t God have created a world that appeared to have evolved over a great period of time?

The peace of Christ be with all of you.
Mark


#39

[quote=PhilVaz]SocCatholic << Amen. >>

And my one word response to DaveFilmer’s post is: cr-p. :smiley:

Please, you anti-evolutionists aren’t getting anywhere misunderstanding the science. If evolution is wrong, what is the alternative? I’m sorry but “God did it” is not a scientific alternative. Although I myself believe “God did it” somehow, someway (using macroevolution), the statement “God did it” cannot be measured, tested, observed, or falsified by science. Evolution can and here is the evidence. What you anti-evolutionists need to do is tear down all that evidence, and put up something scientific in its place that explains the data and observations of nature, genetics, and the fossil record better. That’s the challenge. :stuck_out_tongue:

Phil P
[/quote]

Give me a break, Phil.

You and your evolutionist friends always post links to talk origins archive as though its refutations of creationists are untouchable and inerrant.

Lets have a fun look at the tricks evolutionists use to trick unwitting people into believing in it.

Evolution Lie #1 Evolution is scientific.

Exposed: Evolutionists try to group evolution as a product of science, and not the product of imagination of Darwin, a scientist. Two different things, really.

Evolution Lie #2 Un-ordered systems can self-order themselves (Snowflakes, sand dunes, tornadoes, stalactites, graded river beds, and lightning)

Exposed: Yeah, right. I created myself too becuase my order existed before my physical body did.

This one is truly clever, because it plays upon our human tendency to assume that our understanding of what a snowflake or sand dune is ideal and not an inductive summary of simmilarites occurring in nature.

In other words, the invisible order of the universe is a constant. Snoflakes and sand dunes did not create themselves but were ordered by an outside force that created its order.

Evolution Lie #3 Creationists must come up with a scientific explaination that explains creation if evolution is full of logical holes and didn’t occur.

Exposed: This one is my personal favorite. If in fact evolution did not occur, is that the fault of creationists or evolutionists?

Science doesn’t make errors, People Do.


#40

The Theory of Evolution is full of frauds and lies and mistakes yet it is taught to us as if it were the only truth out there. Do your homework before you jump on the “Evolution is right” bandwagon. Don’t be a sheep! Investigate both sides of the story. Don’t forget: geology is the crux on which Darwin’s Theory of Evolution hangs. Don’t neglect your earth science when you investigate.


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