Evolution Sin and Death


#1

Through Sin Death came into the World

Evolution involves the death of organisms

Before Adam there was no Sin

Is there a problem here?


#2

[quote=pilchard]Through Sin Death came into the World

Evolution involves the death of organisms

Before Adam there was no Sin

[/quote]

Therefore: (1) The “death” that resulted from Adam’s sin is “spiritual death”; or (2) before Adam’s sin, there was no evolution.


#3

This is under the assumption, though, that Adam is not a myth.


#4

Therefore: (1) The “death” that resulted from Adam’s sin is “spiritual death”; or (2) before Adam’s sin, there was no evolution

… or (3) the sin of Adam acts retrospectively…


#5

[quote=Ahimsa]Therefore: (1) The “death” that resulted from Adam’s sin is “spiritual death”
[/quote]

That is correct. The physical death of organisms was present before the Fall, as evidenced in Gen. 2:9. They at food from the plants of the garden, which requires that the part of the plant eaten is severed from its life source and “dies” when consumed. Also, Adam was tasked to cultivate the garden. This implies that there were cycles of tilling, harvest, and reseeding—again, a life and death cycle. There is no evidence that organisms did not die.

We also see that Adam and Eve were not immortal because in Gen. 3:22-24, God banishes the couple from the garden to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life and becoming immortal (which would be a terrible thing in their sinful state). They were not already immortal then or prior to their sin.


#6

I agree inasmuch as option (1) seems to be the best option - namely that the “death” that entered the world was the death of an immortal soul but I’m not sure how Gen 3:22-24 implies that A&E weren’t immortal. Seems a bit weak to me. I have always thought that the “Tree of Life” of Gen 3:24 is a reference to the DNA molecule - and that Gen 3:22-24 was a “hands off” warning contra Genetic Engineering of human beings - in that one suspects the unspoken Holy Grail of all such is the Holy Grail of eternal Youth


#7

[quote=pilchard]I agree inasmuch as option (1) seems to be the best option - namely that the “death” that entered the world was the death of an immortal soul but I’m not sure how Gen 3:22-24 implies that A&E weren’t immortal. Seems a bit weak to me. I have always thought that the “Tree of Life” of Gen 3:24 is a reference to the DNA molecule - and that Gen 3:22-24 was a “hands off” warning contra Genetic Engineering of human beings - in that one suspects the unspoken Holy Grail of all such is the Holy Grail of eternal Youth
[/quote]

I don’t think Adam and Eve (nor their immediate descendents) had the means to conduct genetic engineering. The suggestion that God banished them from the garden to prevent them from tampering with DNA seems a bit weak to me.

If the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was a real tree, we can assume that the Tree of Life was also real. Prior to the Fall, with the exception of the forbidden tree, the couple had God’s full blessing to eat from all plants of the garden, including the Tree of Life. Apparently they had not eaten from the Tree of Life yet because after they sinned and died spiritually, God banished them from the garden so they would not eat and become physically immortal and, thus, live forever in a sinful state. (Gen 3:22-24 tells us what the purpose and effect of the Tree of Life was.) Therefore, they were not physically immortal prior to the Fall.


#8

It is dogma that:
Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace. (De fide.)

Also the donum rectitudinis or integritatis in the narrower sense, i.e., the freedom from irregular desire. (Sent. fidei proxima.)

Also the donum immortalitatis, i.e.,bodily immortality. (De fide.)

Also the donum impassibilitatis, i.e., the freedom from suffering. (Sent. communis.)

Also the donum scientiae, i.e., a knowledge of natural and supernatural truths infused by God. (Sent. communis.)

They WERE immortal before the fall.

ANIMALS and PLANTS were NOT. That is how evolution could have happened. Organisms were always dying. Its natural. But at first humans had a SUPERnatural existance. Then we lost it and reverted a great deal to our animal nature…and so died.


#9

[quote=batteddy]It is dogma that:
Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace. (De fide.)

Also the donum rectitudinis or integritatis in the narrower sense, i.e., the freedom from irregular desire. (Sent. fidei proxima.)

Also the donum immortalitatis, i.e.,bodily immortality. (De fide.)

Also the donum impassibilitatis, i.e., the freedom from suffering. (Sent. communis.)

Also the donum scientiae, i.e., a knowledge of natural and supernatural truths infused by God. (Sent. communis.)

They WERE immortal before the fall.

ANIMALS and PLANTS were NOT. That is how evolution could have happened. Organisms were always dying. Its natural. But at first humans had a SUPERnatural existance. Then we lost it and reverted a great deal to our animal nature…and so died.
[/quote]

Hmmmm…I had never heard that. I had been taught and thought this to be the case, that, when humans fell, we brought the rest of the species down with us…but, I guess, if we are to believe the story as is, the fruit would have to die to be consumed…hmmmmm…:hmmm:


#10

Thanks Batteddy…


#11

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