Evolution, Young/Old Earth, Dinosaurs

Please move this to the appropriate forum if not correct.

Okay, my knowledge of history is poor so I’m hoping someone can provide some insight and direction into where I can go to find more in depth answers.

I know as Catholics we are free to believe in a young earth, and old earth (14 billion years), “instant” creation of God’s guided hand for evolution.

What I’m curious about is that we obviously had dinosaurs roaming the earth and other prehistoric man (Neanderthal, etc.) before humans with immortal souls were created.

How do these things fit together? What is the timeline? If God created man (why did He create all of the other beings before us? Did humans live at the same time as dinosaurs? Where can I find more information that approaches these subjects from a Catholic perspective?

[LIST=1]
*]If God created man why did He create all of the other beings before us?

*]Did humans live at the same time as dinosaurs?

*]Where can I find more information that approaches these subjects from a Catholic perspective?
[/LIST]

  1. Human beings are higher creations than animals. It makes sense that they would be last.

  2. No, the dinosaurs were much, much earlier than any higher mammals.

  3. The Catholic Church teaches religion, not science. There are Catholic biologists.

Look up yesterday’s episode of “Catholic Answers Live” (5/19/17). I forget the name of the guest but they were discussing these things in the first hour.

By the way, dinosaurs and man did not exist together. “The Flintstones” is not a documentary. If male and female homo sapiens existed at the same time as dinosaurs, they wouldn’t be called man or woman, they’d be known as breakfast, lunch, or dinner - take your pick ;):rolleyes::eek:

Shalom

But we did have clever artistic dino-saw- us who painted themselves and each other in caves though!

Maybe the dinosaurs were ripped off with the C/Ancestory account!

(popcorn and ice-cream thanks!)

Very early primitive mammals were contemporary with later non-avian dinosaurs. All mammals are contemporary with avian dinosaurs, that is birds. Mmmm… Kentucky Fried Dinosaur. :slight_smile:

  1. The Catholic Church teaches religion, not science. There are Catholic biologists.

Ken Miller is a Catholic biologist. His Finding Darwin’s God is probably the sort of thing the OP is looking for.

rossum

14 billion years is the estimated age of the universe. About 4-5 billion is the age of the earth.

There is 65 million years seperating the last of the big dinosaurs from man.
Birds may be the last of the dinosaurs still around.

I think there are three animals that should be classified as dinosaurs: alligators, crocodiles, and komodo dragons. AFAIK they lived at the same time as the dinosaurs, they are reptiles just like the dinosaurs, and, in my opinion, they look like dinosaurs. If you saw a picture of 15 dinosaur species all hanging out by a marsh, alligators would fit right in and you wouldn’t think they don’t belong.

In academic contexts, the word “history” has a somewhat technical meaning. It doesn’t refer to anything and everything about the past. It refers specifically to what is based on written records. (Of course, in many cases we have copies of the original documents rather than the original documents.) Thus, the period of time that is “historical” expands – as ancient scripts are deciphered – back to times that used to be in pre-history.

The part of the timeline from before written records made by human beings is covered in subject areas other than history: archaeology, geology, etc.

Another point: University courses dealing with historical times might be offered by departments other than a “History” department. For example, the ancient Greeks and Romans might be too old for a “History” department, and might instead be handled by a department of “Classics” or “Classical Civilization.”

Dinosaurs were not reptiles, that is an old myth.

I believe dinos and man existed at the same time (at some point), the bible as well as many many other historical writings refer to such creatures, Marco Polo for one describes something that sounds pretty close to a dino. I posted a link to a book a long time ago on here that listed all the historical references to such creatures, some of them even even referred to a creature that sounds like what we would call a dragon.

if all these things are not proof enough, look to the ancient cave drawings, they drew what they saw.

I am a Catholic creationist.

I think dinosaurs could very well have lived with man but were called ‘dragons’. Angkor Wat temple in Cambodia has a carving of a stegosaurus.

Check out www.creation.com and www.answersingenesis.org to see the massive flaws in the evolution theory.

On note with the stego, the temple overall has depictions of many fantastical creatures. And here’s an article from the Smithsonian on it. (Just so you understand why it isn’t considered creation proof in the science world.) smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/stegosaurus-rhinoceros-or-hoax-40387948/

All Catholics are, you all believe that God created the universe. The arguments are about when and how God did it.

I think dinosaurs could very well have lived with man but were called ‘dragons’.

I know that dinosaurs live with man. They are called ‘birds’. Modern birds are descended from theropod dinosaurs.

Angkor Wat temple in Cambodia has a carving of a stegosaurus.

No it does not. The head is far too large for a Stegosaur.

Check out www.creation.com and www.answersingenesis.org to see the massive flaws in the evolution theory.

Those sites lie to you. For example, read the AiG Statement of Faith:

By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

That tells you that they will deliberately omit any and all scientific evidence that contradicts their woodenly literal interpretation of Genesis. They lie by omission, and they do so repeatedly throughout their site.

You might also usefully read the more theological elements of that page. Hint: they are not Catholic.

rossum

That’s a good point, although I might myself phrase that as saying that they are “deliberately misleading.”

Is the following theological? It’s certainly strange.

“Death (both physical and spiritual) and bloodshed entered into this world subsequent to and as a direct consequence of man’s sin.”

What did lions eat before man’s sin? How about sharks? It’s difficult to imagine sharks relying upon sea vegetables. Even whales eat shrimp, and shrimp are animals.

Given that plants are also living things, we would also have to conclude that wooden tools weren’t created until after man’s sin, and that no root vegetables such as carrots were eaten until after man’s sin.

Here is a link that folks might find helpful:

biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter/175-apologetics-for-the-masses-issue-125

See this thread: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1053946

Ed

There is no scientific connection between humans and souls.

Yes, it is possible that humans lived with creatures called dragons. The word “dinosaur” was coined in 1841 and referred to “terrible, powerful, wondrous lizards.” The Coat of Arms of Moscow depicts Saint George slaying a dragon. And in Catholic Church stained glass windows.

Ed

There is no relation between dinosaurs and birds.

sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090609092055.htm

Ed

What is the evidence for this idea?

Ed

The Smithsonian?

"In 1987, palaeontologist Jerry MacDonald discovered a wide variety of fossilized tracks from several different species of animals and birds, located in a Permian strata. Among the various fossilized tracks were the clear prints of a human foot.

"However, the Permian strata has been dated from 290 to 248 million years ago- millions of years before animals, birds, dinosaurs, and yes, man, was supposed to exist. How then can these prints be explained?

"In July 1992, the Smithsonian Magazine had an article on these tracks called “Petrified Footprints: A Puzzling Parade of Permian Beasts”.[1] The magazine acknowledged the mystery, acknowledging “what palaeontologists like to call, ‘problematic.’” It described what appeared to be large mammal and bird tracks that, “evolved long after the Permian period, yet these tracks are clearly Permian.”

"While it is commendable that MacDonald and the Smithsonian clearly acknowledge the existence of these tracks in a strata that contradicts the current evolutionary theory, it is noteworthy that they highlight only the mammal and bird prints, and don’t mention the human footprint found with them.

"Interestingly enough, since these tracks been discovered, evolutionists have not tried to argue their authenticity or debunk them. Nor have they tried to argue that the footprint isn’t human. (Often they claim that it’s a print that just “looks like” a human footprint.) Their silence is deafening.

“[1] See “Petrified Footprints: A Puzzling Parade of Permian Beasts” by Jerry MacDonald, Smithsonian, July 1992, Vol. 23, Issue 4, p. 70-79”

Ed

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