EWTN on now, Pope Benedict XVI Mass with delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople

I just turned on EWTN and it’s a repeat of Pope Benedict XVI Solemn Mass of the Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul from earlier today. I’m posting because the delegation from the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is present at this Mass as they were at Vespers yesterday with His Holiness Benedict XVI. It’s being broadcast right now if anyone wants to watch. (I don’t mean there is any sort of con-celebration going on, of course.)

2054! you heard it here first!

or maybe not. but we’re hopeful! :signofcross::gopray2::highprayer:

I watched for a while but had to leave. Did the people from the Orthodox Church receive the Eucharist?

Annie

Not even having seen it I can say quite positively the answer is “no”. Even if your Church would allow it ours doesn’t for much the same reason you wouldn’t approach for communion in an Anglican church.

i don’t understand this. we wouldn’t approach the communion rail in an anglican church because we aren’t sure the sacrament is valid. are you saying the orthodox church doubts the validity of the catholic sacrament? really?

Captainmike, we are indeed sure that the Anglican Church’s sacrament is not valid. If you would like to read the document, I’ll look for it on the web. The Anglican Church’s orders are invalid ergo their communion is invalid. The Orthodox Church’s orders are valid, ergo their sacraments are valid.

Annie

i have read it. very familiar with it, having been an episcopalian for 22 years. thanks.

Many of the Eastern Orthodox doubt the validity of the Catholic Church in total; officially, or at least as officially as anything in Eastern Orthodoxy gets, their answer has been “We don’t know one way or the other, and since we don’t, we act as if they are invalid.”

Some Eastern Orthodox scholars are more certain… a rare few think them valid, and the others think not, but no Eastern Orthodox Church has made any clear “Yes, Catholics have valid sacraments” statement.

The Melkite Catholics and the Antiochian Orthodox have the closest of any Catholic-to-EO relationships; the line between being Melkite vs being AO is fuzzy, and intercommunion is tolerated across that boundary in both directions, at least in practice in the Holy Land.

According to our Church we can fulfill our Sunday obligation by attending an Orthodox Church if there is no Catholic Church available within reasonable distance. Even if I were to visit Greece, I would not attend an Orthodox Church because they do no want me to do so. The situation in the in the Holy Land, I think may be the exception rather than the rule. But I’m not sure that things haven’t changed a bit since I last heard.

Annie

There is also a similar relationship between the Catholic Church as a whole and the Copts. Pope Shenouda III and Pope John Paul II came to a limited intercommunion. Coptic Orthodox may approach the Communion table in any Catholic Church if they have no opportunity to recieve in a Coptic church.

Likewise, a Catholic of any sui juris Church in Communion with Rome, may seek the Sacraments from a Coptic priest if there is no opportunity to recieve them in a Catholic parish.

Hopefully there will be some more photos and maybe some video from their veneration together at the tomb of St. Peter.

Pope Benedict XVI prays with Eminence Gennadios Limouris Metropolitan of Sassima of the Orthodox Church, (L) in front of the tomb of Saint Peter and Paul, after the celebration of the feast for the apostles Peter and Paul, patrons of the church, prior to giving the pallium to 38 cardinals, bishops and archbishops from around the world in St. Peter’s Basilica at the Vatican on, on June 26, 2010. (Getty/Daylife)

His Eminence’s vestment had a rather long train. Can those familiar with that vestment say something about it? It reminded me of the cappa magna. I’ve been in Liturgy with Orthodox bishops, but don’t remember this vestment.

Mantiya

Mantiya: sleeveless cape that fastens at the neck and the feet, worn by the bishop when he formally enters the church before Divine Liturgy.
orthodoxwiki.org/Vestments

It’s part of the “choir dress” equivalent for the Eastern Bishops, both EO and Byzantine.

Orthodox generally don’t make statements about sacraments that are outside of their communion. That is to say, we don’t say yes, and we don’t say no, because they’re not ours to judge. We also don’t generally speak in terms of “validity”. I would say however, that in my private opinion, the Catholic sacraments are efficacious, true, or valid. I would commune in Catholic parishes when I attend them with my girlfriend, but I’m afraid of the consequences from my priest since we don’t allow that. Regardless though, I’m glad to hear of this mass, and while these small steps may seem insignificant, they really are important.

This is a tradition (not sure when it began) - for the Patriarch in Constantinople to send delegates to Rome to commemorate the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul, and for the Holy Father to send delegates to Constantinople to commemorate the feast of St. Andrew. This continued communication shows the prayerful desire for unification of both the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek Orthodox Church.

This was explained at the Mass I attended today with our Cardinal and the local Metropolitan. It was a wonderful Mass and it was great to see the events in Rome echoed in our local Church.

We’re very happy to have you attend, however only Orthodox Christians in good standing are permitted to commune. Please understand that even a visiting Orthodox Christian unknown to the priest would need to speak to the priest before approaching the chalice. It certainly has nothing to do with anyone not wanting you there. :slight_smile:

In short, yes. I wish it could be otherwise. See post #8 by Aramis.

I have to say, even though I can only see the back, Pope Benedict’s vestments are quite beautiful- very tasteful. :thumbsup:

Just for clarity of the Orthodox position, as far as we are concerned, the Orthodox Church is the Catholic church, possessing the Catholic Mysteries. We simply cannot “validate” sacraments outside of the Church, and what is called the Roman Catholic Church is not considered to be a part of the Church, but rather schismatic and in error.

Again to all moderators and such, I do not say any of this to be inflammatory or insulting, I am just clarifying the Orthodox teaching on the matter, as CaptainMike seemed confused.

Thank you! The stripes seem to be a normal part of the mantiya and they are familiar. So probably when I’ve been at an Orthodox Liturgy and the bishop was present I just did not notice the train part. Thanks also for the “choir dress” language which has given me additional information. :slight_smile:
As Russian Byzantines we are under Latin bishops so when our bishop visits he’s naturally not wearing a mantiya… It’s still wonderful to have the bishop come! (Our Latin bishops here have been very supportive of our tiny parish. :thumbsup:)

“Although all heretics wish to be styled Catholic, yet if any one ask where is the Catholic place of worship none of them would venture to point out his own conventicle.” - St. Augustine.

:slight_smile:

(not saying you’re a heretic)

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