Ex-detainees say CIA used makeshift electric chair in secret Afghan prison: rights group


#1

yahoo.com/news/ex-detainees-cia-used-mock-electric-chair-secret-192836114.html

**(Reuters) - Two Tunisian men who spent 12 years in U.S. custody in Afghanistan said CIA interrogators tortured them using previously unreported techniques that included threatening them with a makeshift electric chair and beating them with batons so brutally that they suffered broken bones, Human Rights Watch reported on Monday.

The accounts, which could not be independently confirmed, raised new questions about how prisoners were treated in a former CIA prison in Afghanistan that remains shrouded in secrecy.

Ryan Trapani, a CIA spokesman, said the “CIA reviewed its records and found nothing to support these new claims.”

But Daniel Jones, who led a Senate investigation into the CIA detention program, said the accounts given by the two men, Ridha al-Najjar, 51, and Lotfi al-Arabi El Gherissi, 52, were important because so little is known about the “Cobalt” black site, where an Afghan detainee froze to death in 2002.

“The committee found that the COBALT detention site kept so few written records that it was impossible for the Senate, or the CIA, to determine how many individuals were detained there,” Jones said. “And what exactly was done to those detained.”**

The article continues at the link.


#2

Setting aside whether the story is true or not, it’s hard for me to work up too much sympathy for 2 members of al Qaeda, one of whom was an actual bodyguard to Bin Laden.:shrug:


#3

Personally, I don’t believe them at all. There is no reason why I should


#4

Indeed. We do entirely too much soul searching.

ICXC NIKA


#5

Nor is there any reason to believe the CIA. In fact, based on their past record, there is plenty of reason to disbelieve them.

Can’t trust anybody these days.


#6

I, too, lack any sympathy for these people.


#7

Even if the CIA is lying, I’m still find it hard to generate much outrage of what may have been done to a couple senior al Qaeda members.


#8

from the article

Gherissi said his guards put him in the makeshift electric chair, which he said had plugs for prisoners’ fingers with wires attached and a metal cap for a prisoner’s head. The former detainees said **they were not electrocuted **and the chair was attached to a wall pipe.

So they were not actually electrocuted. I don’t see the problem with threating to do something you are not going to carry out to get information to hopefully save lives

An independent medical expert hired by Human Rights Watch said that X-rays of Najjar showed his ankle had been broken and had not healed properly. Gherissi was missing two teeth.

I bet there are a lot of people in that part of the world with broken bones that haven’t healed properly and missing teeth. Medical care is not as wide spread.

My sister broke her ankle and required surgery with screws and rods to repair properly. I am not surprised in the least there are cases of broken ankles that don’t heal properly, especially in certain part of the world. none of this is proof of wrong dong.


#9

Well, it’s entirely antithetical to Christianity; rather like spitting in Christ’s face. And just the fact that CIA didn’t document events strongly suggests that the victims are telling the truth. When I was a child I experienced what my doctors unanimously referred to as “torture,” and I have an older cousin who spent a lot of time in The School of the Americas while he was in the marines in the nineteen eighties. So I’ve pondered and studied this subject for decades, and I’ve heard detailed first-hand accounts of parrilla use and parrilla training. Also, the fact that at least one man is known to have frozen to death while in secret custody suggests that we employed tactics similar to those used by our ally Uzbekistan, which is famous for raping men, women and children with broken bottles in front of their family members in order to psychologically break them, boiling political prisoners alive in large vats of oil, stripping people naked and tossing them in concrete cells with an inch of water on the floor and allowing them to slowly freeze to death, etcetera, etcetera. Catholics should recoil from this, not seek to justify it.


#10

Not seeking to justify it, just not able to muster much outrage over the mistreatment of men who, as members of al Qaeda, likely have lots of murder, torture, and rape of their own to answer for.


#11

If they really were al Qaeda and not just random innocent people who were kidnapped and flown to CIA torture locations, then yes, they were on the Dark Side, too. We have no idea who was tortured there, though, and we have no idea how many were tortured there, as CIA themselves admit. But even if they were rapists, torturers and murderers themselves, does that mean the United States has the right rape, torture and murder them? We’ve admitted to doing all of the above, by the way, although the deaths are always labelled by officials as accidents or suicides. So, when you really look at U.S. behavior, it’s 100% loathsome. It’s the Passion of Christ on a large scale, with most of these people tortured on a twenty-four-hour around-the-clock basis for months and years without respite. Which actually makes tem even worse than the Passion of Christ. Which means that we Catholics by definition should abhor it and speak out against it.


#12

If they really were al Qaeda and not just random innocent people who were kidnapped and flown to CIA torture locations, then yes, they were on the Dark Side, too. We have no idea who was tortured there, though, and we have no idea how many were tortured there, as CIA themselves admit. But even if they were rapists, torturers and murderers themselves, does that mean the United States has the right rape, torture and murder them? We’ve admitted to doing all of the above, by the way, although the deaths are always labelled by officials as accidents or suicides. So, when you really look at U.S. behavior, it’s 100% loathsome. It’s the Passion of Christ on a large scale, with most of these people tortured on a twenty-four-hour around-the-clock basis for months and years without respite. Which actually makes tem even worse than the Passion of Christ. I know you’re not trying to justify it, by the way, but we Catholics by definition should abhor it, and also speak out against it. Because I think that when Catholics don’t do that, it has a tremendously negative impact on the Faith itself. It can have the opposite effect of evangelization and actually drive people away from the Church. It also creates a sense of spiritual isolation in fellow Catholics, because it’s such a fundamental and basic truth that all Catholics should recognize the inherently evil nature of torture, that when it becomes common for Catholics to disavow this it leaves one wondering whether Catholicism is just a sham. It’s immensely damaging, in other words.


#13

I’ve just never understood the moral obtuseness that would allow someone to be more outraged by what is done to terrorists than by what the terrorists do to their victims. I see that as more damaging to Catholicism than anything I’ve said.


#14

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