Excommunication


#1

How can an excommunicated organization (SSPX) continue to have Mass?


#2

free will…


#3

OK. Can you give me another reason? :banghead:

I don’t understand a couple of things. First, how can they do this. And second, how are they ALLOWED to do this.


#4

[quote=ChristopherMich]How can an excommunicated organization (SSPX) continue to have Mass?
[/quote]

I have often wondered at this same question. Also is eucharistic consecration actually occuring?


#5

[quote=Yonnie]I have often wondered at this same question. Also is eucharistic consecration actually occuring?
[/quote]

Yes. I was attending Mass there, not knowing that the excommunication occurred over a decade ago. I was overseas in the military when that happened, and my parents never bothered to tell me. They continued to go knowing. So, I’m confused.


#6

[quote=ChristopherMich]How can an excommunicated organization (SSPX) continue to have Mass?
[/quote]

because we banished burning at the stake for heretics?
because the Swiss Guards don’t carry uzis?
because willful disobedient priests of every political spectrum will continue to defy papal authority over any and every issue they choose, disregarding the penalty of excommunication, to feed their own pride?
because Catholics of every persuasion continue to think they own the Mass, rather than being beneficiaries of a gift?


#7

[quote=ChristopherMich]How can an excommunicated organization (SSPX) continue to have Mass?
[/quote]

Same reason why the Orthodox can also. What’s needed for a Sacrament are matter, form, and intent. As long as the priest has been validly ordained by a successor to the apostles he can confect the Eucharist if he uses the right form (words of consecration) and matter (bread). The Mass would be considered illicit, but not invalid.

To me anyway, it’s kind of like how an unmarried couple still can have kids. It’s an illicit union, but it still results in kids. An illicit consecration still results in the Body of Christ.


#8

[quote=ChristopherMich]OK. Can you give me another reason? :banghead:

I don’t understand a couple of things. First, how can they do this. And second, how are they ALLOWED to do this.
[/quote]

Simple, how are Anglicans, Episcopalians, Methodists, Baptists, etc… “allowed” to continue preaching in Christ’s Name. They reject the authority of the Universal Church. They have made themselves their own masters. While groups such as the SSPX are valid in form, they are illicit in function. Attending an SSPX Mass is forbidden unless there is no legitimate other venue.


#9

Well, there was no legitimate other venue that I was aware of. Also, I was unaware of the situation, as I stated earlier.

Why does the Church not stop the Mass?


#10

well, “how” or “allowed” is simple… we don’t have “Mass Police”… they have the right to worship as they see fit…

the entire protestant church is doing the exact same thing… they are practicing a form that is not accepted or valid as far as Rome is concerned…

if your not orthodox, your (boy am i going to get with this line) protestant, (technically speaking)…

Remember, Luther was catholic as were all those that followed him… but they decided to ignore Rome and go their own way. That’s no different than the SSPX…

I don’t know if that helps, but it’s not rocket science…imho


#11

I guess my concern is that non-catholics see this and well, you know where it goes from there. I guess we just need “Mass Police” like you said LR.


#12

The same way the Eastern Orthodox churches can still have validly ordained clergy, and valid sacraments.

What it comes down to is that, in spite of diobedience to the Magisterium of the Church, Apostolic Succession can still be preserved through the Sacrament of Holy Orders. A Bishop who breaks with the Church is still a Bishop, and when he ordains, with the proper form and intent, the ordination is sacramentally valid, though illicit.

Remember too, excommunication is something that someone inflicts upon themselves – they separate themselves from the communion of the Church. The formal pronouncements of excommunication by the Church formally and publicly declare that fact (which remains a fact, even without formal declaration), either for the sake of the soul of the individual, the souls of the faithful, or both.

Blessings,

Gerry


#13

what do you suggest? move in with Sherman tanks? surface missiles? call in a Vatican SWAT team?


#14

We DO have the B-16 now. And one of these days the CA Pope is going to get us Swiss guards (UNIFORMED) onto this, I’m sure.


#15

Excuse me, I’m dumb. :o What is SSPX?


#16

[quote=puzzleannie]what do you suggest? move in with Sherman tanks? surface missiles? call in a Vatican SWAT team?
[/quote]

You mean the Jesuits?


#17

[quote=masondoggy]Excuse me, I’m dumb. :o What is SSPX?
[/quote]

The Society of St. Pius X. They believe that Pius the Tenth was the last valid pope (before Vatican II)


#18

Sorry, it just seems like we could do more. But, like LR says, free will…


#19

[quote=Scott_Lafrance]The Society of St. Pius X. They believe that Pius the Tenth was the last valid pope (before Vatican II)
[/quote]

LOL, no they don’t. They simply believe that the modernism that St. Pius the X warned about has been the cause of all the problems in the church. They still believe the Pope is the Pope they just don’t agree with the modernistic practices.

Now SSPV (Society of St. Pius V) believes that there hasn’t been a valid Pope since Pius the XII. They believe that the seat is empty. (sedevacantis)


#20

I don’t have an answer to your original question, but I did want to say that if you are concerned whether or not the church you attend is in communion with Rome, you should be able to check with your local diocese. I know that the Archdiocese of Miami’s website has a page which lists which churches in the area call themselves Catholic but are not in communion with Rome (among them the SSPX chapels).


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.