[quote=Angainor]. The Priest is referring to his own body? He is standing in for Christ? I admit I don’t know enough about what you are talking about to give a good comment, sorry.
The priest acts in the person of Christ. So, when he says the words, it is really Christ saying the words through him. Uh, I just realized, does the Lutheran pastor even say a consecration in the same way a Catholic priest does? Can you give me a link to the text of the consecration?
Yes, that passage from 1 Timothy is one of the reasons we don’t call women in this role"Everything is permissible"–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive.
1 Corinthians 10:23
[left]Well, I know you like that chapter in Corinthians.
My point with the Timothy quote is that women cannot perform the role, in no small part because of what Timothy says. It’s not as if we could just change our minds about women not having teaching authority over men in church.
I have to say, I’m not quite sure what you mean by that quote, though. Certainly that passage can’t be interpreted to mean that everything is permissible, as it is talking specifically about eating meat sacrificed to idols, and the issue of causing scandal to other Christians. And I don’t think you’re trying to say everything is permissible, in that we no longer have to follow the laws of Christ. No orthodox Lutheran would say that… so that is exactly why I’m perplexed by what you’re saying. Yes, liberty should be used to the common good, it should be constructive, it should build-up… but the liberty we have as Christians is the freedom to follow Christ, not to disobey Him (that would be license). And if women can’t be part of the ministerial priesthood, then we still have to abide by that. [/left]
You say that with such certianty, but it is just not true. Maybe this will help you to understand:
Preaching is one of the important duties of the ministerial priesthood-- but there are other more important ones, such as the Lord’s Supper. Nevertheless, the emphasis on preaching from the clergy was added to by Protestants compared to what Catholics traditionally held (after all, the Catholic priesthood really can be centered only on its sacramental function-- that of the Eucharist and Confession). I didn’t think a Protestant would deny the importance of preaching from the ministerial priesthood, but, perhaps I was wrong.
The LCMS does not bring women into the role of pastor, but there are other Lutheran Churches that do. We disagree with them, but we are not so presumptuous that we would take it upon ourselves to declare their sacrament invalid.
As you said about the Lord’s Supper:
[quote=Angainor]It is a grave sin to disrespect the Lord’s Supper,
What’s so presumptuous about that? It isn’t something to be taken lightly. I think it is presumptuous not to be highly protective of the most Holy Sacrament the Lord gave to us. And what if their sacrament is invalid? How many people are being led horribly astray by this problem if that is so? If we take Jesus’ word that he who does not eat his flesh or drink his blood has no life in him seriously, then I think we have to answer that yes, this does matter deeply. I understand the impulse not to want to cause friction with them, but I have to disagree here.
Oh and, by the way, your screen name rocks! Go Tolkien! (Uh, right?)