Expelled activists describe cold-blooded killings

google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHeHJJlE23Vrk3e8OFI3wgh_UiLQ

AMMAN — Activists expelled to Jordan early on Wednesday after being hauled off a Gaza-bound aid flotilla accused Israeli commandos who carried out the raid of killing passengers cold-bloodedly.

"What happened was unbelievable. The way the criminal Israeli soldiers beat us and killed Turkish activists in cold blood was like a bloody movie. They could have arrested them," Morrocan MP Abdelqader Amara, 47, told AFP in a hotel in Amman.

"The Israelis used live ammunition and showed us all the barbarism and cruelty in the world although all of us were unarmed. The Israelis beat some of them up with the butts of their rifles before they shot them dead."

[quote="jjdrury81, post:1, topic:200429"]
google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHeHJJlE23Vrk3e8OFI3wgh_UiLQ

AMMAN — Activists expelled to Jordan early on Wednesday after being hauled off a Gaza-bound aid flotilla accused Israeli commandos who carried out the raid of killing passengers cold-bloodedly.

"What happened was unbelievable. The way the criminal Israeli soldiers beat us and killed Turkish activists in cold blood was like a bloody movie. They could have arrested them," Morrocan MP Abdelqader Amara, 47, told AFP in a hotel in Amman.

"The Israelis used live ammunition and showed us all the barbarism and cruelty in the world although all of us were unarmed. The Israelis beat some of them up with the butts of their rifles before they shot them dead."

[/quote]

Nasty scene...I hope that third parties can sort out what happened.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:1, topic:200429"]
google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHeHJJlE23Vrk3e8OFI3wgh_UiLQ

AMMAN — Activists expelled to Jordan early on Wednesday after being hauled off a Gaza-bound aid flotilla accused Israeli commandos who carried out the raid of killing passengers cold-bloodedly.

"What happened was unbelievable. The way the criminal Israeli soldiers beat us and killed Turkish activists in cold blood was like a bloody movie. They could have arrested them," Morrocan MP Abdelqader Amara, 47, told AFP in a hotel in Amman.

"The Israelis used live ammunition and showed us all the barbarism and cruelty in the world although all of us were unarmed. The Israelis beat some of them up with the butts of their rifles before they shot them dead."

[/quote]

What else would they say?

"We were wrong to invade the soverignty of Israel?";)

That'd be a strange thing to say since their ship was in international waters and had no intention of entering Israeli territory. Unless the Israelis now believe that international waters = Israeli territory.

[quote="Kadaveri, post:4, topic:200429"]
That'd be a strange thing to say since their ship was in international waters and had no intention of entering Israeli territory. Unless the Israelis now believe that international waters = Israeli territory.

[/quote]

No intention huh? Were they on the Love Boat cruise? Or were you in communication?

Talk like that is how 13 year olds are convinced to strap on bombs.

They were in international waters heading towards Gaza, they were not in Israeli territory and had no intention of entering Israeli territory. These are facts which nobody disputes. For someone to claim they were 'invading Israeli sovereignty' they'd have to also claim that Israel owns the world.

[quote="iamrefreshed, post:5, topic:200429"]
No intention huh? Were they on the Love Boat cruise? Or were you in communication?

Talk like that is how 13 year olds are convinced to strap on bombs.

[/quote]

Do you have any evidence the ship had hostile intentions or was carrying contraband?
If not your statement is invalid.

[quote="TechieJustin, post:7, topic:200429"]
Do you have any evidence the ship had hostile intentions or was carrying contraband?
If not your statement is invalid.

[/quote]

We know that, although it did not have hostile intentions, it was carrying contraband. Clothing, shoes, fresh meat and produce, and children's toys are considered by Isralies to be "luxury items" for Palestinians and forbidden for Gazans to import.

[quote="Kadaveri, post:6, topic:200429"]
They were in international waters heading towards Gaza, they were not in Israeli territory and had no intention of entering Israeli territory. These are facts which nobody disputes. For someone to claim they were 'invading Israeli sovereignty' they'd have to also claim that Israel owns the world.

[/quote]

Confession: Gaza flotilla participants PLANNED to attack Israel; wanted to martyr themselves for jihad

hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2010/06/01/confession-gaza-flotilla-participants-planned-to-attack-israel-wanted-to-martyr-themselves-for-jihad/

Facts are so inconvenient.

[quote="BobCatholic, post:9, topic:200429"]
Confession: Gaza flotilla participants PLANNED to attack Israel; wanted to martyr themselves for jihad

[/quote]

Resisting an illegal boarding by use of one's fingernails is hardly a plan to attack Israel. Too bad the video doesn't support the garbage on the blog.

They were armed.. Israel had every right to do what they did... if it was me they woulda been nuked. Just more lies from the left.

[quote="jjdrury81, post:1, topic:200429"]
google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gHeHJJlE23Vrk3e8OFI3wgh_UiLQ

AMMAN — Activists expelled to Jordan early on Wednesday after being hauled off a Gaza-bound aid flotilla accused Israeli commandos who carried out the raid of killing passengers cold-bloodedly.

"What happened was unbelievable. The way the criminal Israeli soldiers beat us and killed Turkish activists in cold blood was like a bloody movie. They could have arrested them," Morrocan MP Abdelqader Amara, 47, told AFP in a hotel in Amman.

"The Israelis used live ammunition and showed us all the barbarism and cruelty in the world although all of us were unarmed. The Israelis beat some of them up with the butts of their rifles before they shot them dead."

[/quote]

[quote="EmperorNapoleon, post:10, topic:200429"]
Resisting an illegal boarding by use of one's fingernails is hardly a plan to attack Israel. Too bad the video doesn't support the garbage on the blog.

[/quote]

Nice red herring. Nobody ever said they intended to attack Israel. They were running a blockade in order to cause a confrontation. It was precisely because the confrontationists wouldn't allow the ship to be searched that the commandos landed on it. If the Israelis were the monsters you all claim them to be, they would have just sunk it.

Egypt, of course, also had a blockade because terrorists from Gaza also cause problems in Egypt. Turkey was okay with the blockade, which has been going on for a long time.

But these people decided to cause a confrontation with Israel, and did. For all Israel knew, the boats might have been carrying weapons (which normally come in through the tunnels from Egypt, and which tunnels the Egyptians have sometimes blown or gassed to stop it)

Your Democrat president Kennedy risked nuclear war with the Soviet Union in order to enforce a nuclear weapons blockade of Cuba.

Your Hamas terrorists and their European leftist allies just don't want there to be peace in the Middle East, and this is part of their propaganda war to prevent Muslims from making peace with Israel.

Pretty transparent to anyone with eyes to see.

Uh oh! Joe Biden said today that Israel had every right to stop the blockade runners.

I believe those activists, being patsies, reached the goal set out for them. To cause trouble. It's all so predictable.

"None of the passengers interviewed by AP have said lethal force was used by the Israelis before they boarded the ship."
seesmic.com/web/spacer.png3.ly/GSue

"Three or four activists overpowered each soldier as he landed, beating each one to the deck, "

"where they were surrounded by more men with sticks. One soldier was tossed over the side onto a lower deck."

I think Israel showed a lot of restraint, first by not sinking the vessel when it tried to run the blockade, and secondly by not using extraordinary force to board the ship. Only when the soldiers felt that their lives were endangered did they use lethal force. The blockade has been recognized by many countries and is consistant with international law. The Israelis were acting in accordance with the law in the way they boarded the vessel after if refused to divert. I dare say that if anyone were to resist the police in such a manner during a traffic stop they would find themselves in trouble as well. All of the hysterical rants against Israel begin with the premise that they don't have a right to exist nor defend themselves. Those who complain in that fashion are useful tools of terrorists, anarchists, and the enemies of the United States and Israel.

[quote="Cactus, post:16, topic:200429"]
I think Israel showed a lot of restraint, first by not sinking the vessel when it tried to run the blockade, and secondly by not using extraordinary force to board the ship. Only when the soldiers felt that their lives were endangered did they use lethal force. The blockade has been recognized by many countries and is consistant with international law. The Israelis were acting in accordance with the law in the way they boarded the vessel after if refused to divert. I dare say that if anyone were to resist the police in such a manner during a traffic stop they would find themselves in trouble as well. All of the hysterical rants against Israel begin with the premise that they don't have a right to exist nor defend themselves. Those who complain in that fashion are useful tools of terrorists, anarchists, and the enemies of the United States and Israel.

[/quote]

Very well spoken.

I don’t know where you get your information, but there is no evidence the ships tried to “run” the blockade. They were unarmed vessels in international waters. They had every right under international law to be where they were. They were assaulted by Israeli warships before they could “run” anywhere.

As for showing a lot of restraint, well, I suppose they could have sunk the ships outright, but I guess you’ve got soemthing there. They only killed 19 civilians, including, by the way, an American 19 year old with dual Turkish citizenship.

[quote=Cactus] and secondly by not using extraordinary force to board the ship.
[/quote]

Extraordinary force? They used the force needed to board an unarmed vessel.

[quote=Cactus]The blockade has been recognized by many countries and is consistant with international law.
[/quote]

Not THIS blockade. This blockade has been condemned by everyone from the UN on down as a violation of human rights.

[quote=Cactus] All of the hysterical rants against Israel begin with the premise that they don’t have a right to exist nor defend themselves.
[/quote]

Of all the posts I’ve seen here that are critical of the Israeli action, I haven’t seen one, not one, premised as you have described. It is Israel’s apologists that keep bringing that one up.

The Israelis clearly did not exercise restraint. They knew weeks in advance that these ships with these activists were going to try to deliver aid to Gaza. The Israeli cabinet had regular meetings to decide what they were going to do and the Israeli military had plenty of time to plan their course of action. In the end, they decided to launch an armed commando raid in the middle of the night on international waters, in other words they chose probably the most dangerous and reckless option available to them. Disregarding the legality of Israel stopping the flotilla, the Israelis could easily have done it by physically blocking it off, they could have surrounded the ship with its naval vessels so it physically couldn't move, they could have disabled the ship's propellor, they could have rammed the ship they've done that several times before without causing injuries, they could have even just raided the ship at noon where there would be far less chance of an incident. The fact that they decided to stop the ships in this way means they had priorities higher than preventing bloodshed, like making some kind of statement.

[quote="Kadaveri, post:19, topic:200429"]
The Israelis clearly did not exercise restraint. They knew weeks in advance that these ships with these activists were going to try to deliver aid to Gaza. The Israeli cabinet had regular meetings to decide what they were going to do and the Israeli military had plenty of time to plan their course of action. In the end, they decided to launch an armed commando raid in the middle of the night on international waters, in other words they chose probably the most dangerous and reckless option available to them. Disregarding the legality of Israel stopping the flotilla, the Israelis could easily have done it by physically blocking it off, they could have surrounded the ship with its naval vessels so it physically couldn't move, they could have disabled the ship's propellor, they could have rammed the ship they've done that several times before without causing injuries, they could have even just raided the ship at noon where there would be far less chance of an incident. The fact that they decided to stop the ships in this way means they had priorities higher than preventing bloodshed, like making some kind of statement.

[/quote]

Well, maybe.

But the Israelis did not know what these people had on board. Did the Israelis know for sure the confrontationists didn't have, for example, RPGs capable of piercing the hulls of the "circle of ships" you envision as being a better option? Did they know for sure none of the Hamas people on board had no explosives?

And if they somehow managed to stop the propeller, what then? Sit and starve the confrontationists out? Land on board?

Not being a military tactician, I couldn't say what the least potentially dangerous option would be to stop an openly defiant blockade runner that might or might not be armed and whose members might or might not be seeking "jihadi martyrdom", taking some Israelis with them. I'm sure it's always difficult to know things like that.

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