'Experience' and Traditionalism

Just wondered whether people here think there is a difference between Catholics who want charismatic experience, praying in tongues, dancing, modern music in order to gain a spiritual ‘experience’ from the Holy Mass, and Catholics who want Latin plainchant, traditional forms, incense, reverential silence for the same experiential reasons?

Different people derive consolation from different things, but the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not entertainment, so any valid Mass gives us the same spiritual gifts, whether we ‘feel’ it or not.

Just wondering if people here think there is something that makes the desire for the traditional Latin mass more valid or significant than the desire for a charismatic/contemporary music mass?

The problem with a lot of contemporary Masses is that the congregation celebrates itself. The worst aspect of this, in Britain at least, it is that it is only barely a community. If there is wedding, the congregation is not invited as a matter of course. It is not that sort of community, and so there is a kind of pretence going on.

That is not the case with all contemporary Masses and communities. Whether a traditional Mass is “better” in some absolute sense is a very interesting question. However the idea that every religious ritual is of equal value is false, even within the Church, some parts flourish whilst other parts fail.

Are you saying in Britain that if there is a wedding, it is expected that the congregation is automaticly
invited or am I reading that right? And sorry, I don’t quite understand what you are saying in the last statement. If I’m reading it right, it sounds like your saying the NO Mass is celebrated wrong as compared to the TLM. Is that right?:shrug:

No I am not saying that at all. The question is, if a ritual “feels right” are all rituals equal - be that a Tridentine High Mass, a charismatic renewal meeting, maybe even a Wiccan Sanheim?

The answer is no, there can be fairly objective things which are wrong. The example I chose was of a contemporary Mass where the tendency is for the congregation to celebrate itself. However if it is not even such a community that everyone, as a matter of course, goes to the wedding of a parishioner - and that is the case in Britain, but probably not in a African village - then that celebration of self is based on an illusion.

However I wouldn’t want to imply that all NO Masses make this error. I chose it because it was one picked out by the Holy Father recently. Nor would I imply that you couldn’t point to analogous weaknesses in more traditional rites. My point was that not all feeling are equal. If it is all love and harmony until serious amounts of money are involved, then the love and harmony never menat anything much.

OK, Thanks!

I would judge the validity of both sets of desires based upon the conciliar and papal documents of the Church which relate to her wishes for the liturgy.

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