Explaining trinity to 21st century audiences

Recently there have been many news reports on why people are leaving religion and adopting agnosticism or athiesm. I truly believe it is down to our inability to answer questions on the fundamentals of our religion using logic, textuals evidence as well as science. I welcome anyone who would like to discuss trinity which is the most important concept of catholicism using biblical evidence and basic logic.

Can anyone give me a better explanation of trinity than the use of egg or water?

If I had to pick something, I would lean toward what the Church calls the ‘source and summit’ of the faith to be most important to Catholicism.

However, regardless of a ‘most important’ designation - What is it you would like to discuss about the Trinity?

The biblical evidence of the trinity is identifiable, from the more vague ‘us’ in the first story of creation, to the descriptors of Father, Son, and Spirit in the NT.

There are some spaghetti maps out there that try, but it is a mystery.

Now people tend to apply a definition to mystery as ‘unknown’.

God is more like a known that you and I can’t comprehend.

Thus the importance of revelation.

It doesn’t make sense for creation to think the way God thinks.

But it does make sense, God would reveal what can be understood.

In this case, the Person’s can be known, what they do for folks can be known.

How God works? not so much.

I think its very important to find scriptual evidence for this, could you please copy and paste the verses that explain the concept in the bible?

To make it more clear for the benefit of all: trinity is the concept that defines God as three distinct persons in one God head and the father, the son and the holy ghost are all ‘God’ and co-equal. We are looking for biblical evidence for this.

Gen. 1:24-26 (Bold mine) usccb.org/bible/genesis/1

24 Then God said: Let the earth bring forth every kind of living creature: tame animals, crawling things, and every kind of wild animal. And so it happened:

25 God made every kind of wild animal, every kind of tame animal, and every kind of thing that crawls on the ground. God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said: Let us make human beings in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the tame animals, all the wild animals, and all the creatures that crawl on the earth.

Matt. 3: 13-17 (Bold mine) [usccb.org/bible/matthew/3](http://usccb.org/bible/matthew/3)

The Baptism of Jesus.

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 

14* John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” 

15Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him. 

16*  After **Jesus** was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened [for him], and he **saw the Spirit of God **descending like a dove [and] coming upon him. 

17 And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “**This is my beloved Son**,* with whom I am well pleased.”

ignatiusinsight.com/features2011/print2011/fsheed_trinity_may2011.html

The critics could say the word ‘us’ could be a royal plural not referring to a number of dieties. Also how do we know whether us means three , four, five or more dieties. With regard to a dove appearing, theres no evidence of the son, the father and the holy ghost being mentioned as triune.

Something like this verse:

1 John 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

It’s been said that Frank Sheed’s, “Theology and Sanity” provided an excellent explanation of the Trinity. Look for that book.

When critics want to learn the truth, they’ll flip from commenting on that which they don’t know, to asking questions about Him who they want to know.

We are looking for biblical evidence for trinity. There have been attempts to explain the concept like water, eggs and recently i found out about st patricks shamrock but they are firstly flawed and secondly without biblical evidence do not carry much weight.

To assume perfection in analogy is a bigger flaw than the limits of analogy.

All analogies are going to be limited since they are used in an effort to help explain something else.

They are never the something else.

When applied to God, the separation is obviously going to be enormous.

Does that make analogies all garbage?

of course not.

@ffg i think its reasonable to ask for biblical evidence for the most important concepts. In years I have not heard anyone provide any solid evidence except for 1 John 5:7

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
However upon the discovery of codex sinaiticus the scholars have found out that this verse amongst others were a later addition in the later manual scripts like codex vaticanus.

I’d use St. Patrick’s Bad Analogies. :slight_smile:

Evidence has been provided.

Providing more evidence from the same source to someone who can’t understand the first won’t assist in breaking the wall.

Perhaps try taking the evidence provided and sitting with God in silence.

Ask God to show you why the evidence provided is evidence.

See what happens.

The list of book exerpts is fascinating, and i’ll have to have a dig, seeing it leads to so much other literature.

Almost iidentical versions of the 1978 Ignatius Press edition are available online (expired copyright), but i get the impression that virtually no one wants to put in some time and hard work to read the section about God. It’s impossible to rely on just Scripture to build up any sort of meaningful image, except to provide a lead-in to something deeper. :shrug:

Theology and Sanity-Contents - Katapi Home:

www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Contents.html

The best explanation of the Trinity is the Athanasian Creed:

newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm

For further questions, I recommend Thomas Aquinas:

www.newadvent.org/summa/1.htm

For those of us with lousy eyesight, the New Advent print is almost impossible to read.
We all have our pet sources for info, but the NA prose is heavy and daunting, especially for a newcomer.

i’d lay a bet that Theology and Sanity is more comprehensible, at least as a start. Frank Sheed had more than his share of experience as an apologist in front of crowds in London’s Hyde Park, so he learned the hard way how to get “the message” across.

From the Foreword:

This book contains theology, not the great mass of it that theologians need, but the indispensable minimum that every man needs in order that he may be living mentally in the real world…

.
From the rear cover of the 1978 Ignatius Press edition which devotes more than 30 pages to the doctrine of the Blessed Trinity:

Of Sheed’s many books, this is my favorite, not just because it includes the clearest explanation of the Trinity ever put on paper, but because it proves that only the Catholic view of reality can satisfy our mental hunger. Karl Keating

That’s only Karl Keating’s personal opinion, of course, but it must mean something.

Link, again:

www.katapi.org.uk/TandS/Contents.html

There are other online sources eg:

www.ecatholic2000.com/sheed/untitled-42.shtml

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