In response to my Message #5
is fortunate enough to find themselves in Heaven, whatever their religious persuasion on this earth (or, even if they were ignorant pagans) – then those persons would indeed have been saved by virtue of the fact that somehow they died “inside the Catholic Church.”
TNT wrote: Message #7
That’s an undestatement.
So, worshipping a twig or stone “somehow” puts a pagan inside the “catholic” church! Amazing, indeed. Can anyone propose what, exactly, this “somehow” pertains to?
St. Thomas taught that invincible ignorance, while it undoubtedly excuses from sin, in this case the sin of infidelity, cannot save:…
Rejected by the Magisterium:.
In 1679 Pope Innocent XI condemned the following proposition which implied that one could be saved without supernatural faith or revelation:
Condemned: “A faith amply indicated from the testimony of creation, or from a similar motive, suffices for justification” (Denz. 2123). 12 As St. Paul taught, if salvation were possible by the Mosaic Law, or by the natural law as well, then “Christ died in vain” (Galatians 2:21).
"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her
(Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
Unfortunately, I have not had time to respond until now.
- Also unfortunately, TNT has failed to read (or understand) the logic in “… whoever is fortunate enough to find themselves in Heaven…” ! It has the same meaning as:
a) IF anyone has attained Salvation and is in Heaven -
THEN that individual is a Member of the Mystical Body of Christ in Heaven and is, therefore, a Catholic.
Cf. Dogma: “The members of the Kingdom of God on earth and in the other world sanctified by the redeeming grace of Christ are united in a common supernatural life with the Head of the Church and with one another. (Sent. certa.)”
Dogma: “God gives all innocent unbelievers (infideles negativi) suffienct grace to achieve eternal salvation. (Sent. certa.) “
Dogma: “God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness. (De fide.)”
b) Inasmuch as we mere human beings cannot place limits on God:
IF God chooses to grant Salvation to anyone who has not been a card-carrying Member of the Catholic Church (the pre-Christian “just” come to mind for one instance!)
THEN, I submit, those individuals ARE Members of the Mystical Body in Heaven when they were not so on Earth!
c) Furthermore, there may also be instances of post BC persons – both Christians who have received Baptism and those who have received Baptism of Desire or Blood AND even pagans – who God may choose to grant Salvation and, therefore, are also Members of the Mystical Body in Heaven and, therefore, are Catholics.
TNT chooses to ignore the Magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church via the Catechism of the Catholic Church #818 and 819, including: “Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation…”.
The Catechism specifically addresses “Outside the Church there is no salvation” in Nos. 846 to 848 – which TNT also chooses to ignore – particularly #847: “these too may achieve eternal salvation.”
2 be continued: