Extraordianry form, clerical societies, diocesan priesthood


#1

I was wondering if anyone could point me to a clerical society, an oratory, or a society that is made up of priests, that celebrates the extraordinary Mass. I feel drawn to a vocation as the diocesan priest carries out, but am unsure of the possibility of being able to celebrate the extraordinary form if I have a diocesan vocation. I know of the FSSP celebrating only the extraordinary, and I am keeping them in my thoughts.

I want to be a part of the tradition that was observed by the Church Fathers, and to emphasis the sacred, latin song, Gregorian chant, etc.

Of course, however, the Mass, is the Mass, and by the Word of God the body and blood of Christ becomes present in the Eucharist, but, why not show more reverence, why not take more care in every gesture and every word, realizing the presence of Christ in our midst. This is how I would like to celebrate the Mass, a Mass more centered on God than on the celebrant. Because we all know that sometimes in the ordinary form the personality can drive the atmosphere of reverence in the Mass, and although I have only been to one latin Mass, I would assume the level of reverence, which is high, does not shift a whole lot.

My last questions: If a diocesan priest who is already ordained, and does not have the knowledge to celebrate the extraordinary form, how does he go about this? Does he have to get it approved by his Bishop? If he has no training in the Latin Rite, will he be allowed to go for further schooling in order to acquire the knowledge needed to celebrate the Latin Rite? Is resistance from the Bishop likely in such a case?

Also,

If a seminarian of the diocesan priesthood showed a desire to celebrate the extraordinary Mass, would he be given the schooling during his formation, and permission to celebrate the extraordinary Mass once ordained?

thank you for any help!

God Bless!


#2

The major one besides the FSSP is the Institute of Christ the King. According to Wikipedia, though, there are tons more, including "the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer, the Institute of the Good Shepherd (IGS), the Servants of Jesus and Mary (Servi Jesu et Mariae, SJM), the Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem (CRNJ), the Canons Regular of Saint John Cantius (SJC), the Fraternity of Saint Vincent Ferrer, and the Personal Apostolic Administration of Saint John Mary Vianney (PAASJV). There are also multiple monastic communities, including the Monastery of Our Lady of the Annunciation of Clear Creek, the Monastery of St. Benedict in Norcia, and the Monks of the Most Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel: see Communities using the Tridentine Mass."

Attitudes toward the EF vary from diocese to diocese. Most seem to at least tolerate it. Of course if you feel called to diocesan priesthood and have a special love for the EF Mass, how the diocese regards the EF is likely to play a role in your discernment process. Some, such as the Diocese of Lincoln, are very favorable towards it. Others might have seminaries that offer EF Mass practicum as an elective -- something you can take if you're interested, but no one's obligated to. Others might not offer it in seminary at all but allow you to travel, for instance to attend to an FSSP workshop to learn the Mass.

And of course you can always learn it yourself directly -- the FSSP makes excellent instructional videos and there's an awesome Web site out there, Sancta Missa, that has tutorials for priests interested in learning it. So even if you pursued a vocation to diocesan priesthood somewhere where the seminary could not accommodate your desire to learn the EF of the Mass, you aren't entirely out of options.

The main thing to bear in mind is that joining a society of apostolic life or something of the sort produces a different breed of priests than would a diocesan seminary. As a diocesan priest you are entrusted more directly to care for the people of the diocese. As a member of a society of apostolic life (or something similar) you serve the society first.


#3

The sciocety of Jesus Christ the priest. They celebrate both forms well and faithfully.


#4

[quote="gizik, post:1, topic:296022"]

I want to be a part of the tradition that was observed by the Church Fathers, and to emphasis the sacred, latin song, Gregorian chant, etc.

[/quote]

The Church Fathers predate the Extraordinary Form, also some of them are not even of the Latin Church.

[quote="gizik, post:1, topic:296022"]

Of course, however, the Mass, is the Mass, and by the Word of God the body and blood of Christ becomes present in the Eucharist, but, why not show more reverence, why not take more care in every gesture and every word, realizing the presence of Christ in our midst. This is how I would like to celebrate the Mass, a Mass more centered on God than on the celebrant. Because we all know that sometimes in the ordinary form the personality can drive the atmosphere of reverence in the Mass, and although I have only been to one latin Mass, I would assume the level of reverence, which is high, does not shift a whole lot.

[/quote]

I would suggest that you seek out a spiritual director. Everyone who is discerning a call to the priesthood/religious life should have one.

I would also point out that what you seek can be found in the Ordinary Form and that the "cult of personality" that you dislike can also be found within those who prefer the Extraordinary Form.


#5

[quote="Friar_David_O.Carm, post:4, topic:296022"]
The Church Fathers predate the Extraordinary Form, also some of them are not even of the Latin Church.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#6

While my friend SW has answered your questions quite well, I may be able to shed some light on your questions on the Diocesan Priesthood as this happened in my own Parish only a few years ago.

Summorum Pontificum allowed the Clergy to celebrate, without direct resistance from their Diocesan Bishop, the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. The Holy Father so eloquently reminded our faithful shepherds of this in the eleventh paragraph of the Motu Proprio:

What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place. Needless to say, in order to experience full communion, the priests of the communities adhering to the former usage cannot, as a matter of principle, exclude celebrating according to the new books. The total exclusion of the new rite would not in fact be consistent with the recognition of its value and holiness.

So with that, Diocesan Clergy could celebrate the 1962 Mass accordingly. Some Diocese’s have workshops. Many are run independent from the Diocese, at least in some cases, by the FSSP or the Canons Regular of Saint John Cantius. My own Pastor did not go to such a work shop that I know of, he arranged it on his own. He was originally a Jesuit before becoming a Priest of the Archdiocese.

Many Dioceses (including my own) have begun this initiative in order for their Seminarians to learn the EF so they can celebrate it upon Ordination. Unfortunately, still five years or so after Summorum Pontificum, some Seminary programs still have not come into fruition concerning the EF.

You too.


#7

SW, thank you for your insight. It sounds like there are a good number of options to pursue for diocesan priests, if that be their course. It also looks like there are many societies I could consider.

superamazingman, interesting group you gave me. I have read they take a more stern apporach at the pulpit, they sound a little like St. John Vianney, if they are anything like him, that is a good thing.

Friar David, O, Carm, thank you for clarifying that the Church Fathers did not observe the extraordinary form. I have much learning to come. I am also going to be in contact with a priest I knew in college who is sure to help me.

BI, thank you for the info on Summorum Pontificum. This clears up my question on the matter.


#8

Touchy subject.

You can certainly join a society that makes a promise (not a vow, BTW) to say only the TLM. However, I would suggest to spend a LOT of time with such a group to make SURE it is right for you. The FSSP is a bunch of really faithful, really orthodox, really elite and sort of snooty priests who pretty much keep to themselves in their own parishes. They do the job (saying the TLM only and running their parishes in a traditional way using the old rites) really well. I go to an FSSP parish some, and have 98% good things to say about it. I do question the content of the formation they receive just a bit, since it is really, really heavy on liturgy and Thomism which leaves them kind of deficient on moral theology and history, but that is personal opinion and I have known only a limited number of members and everybody is different with different interests. On the other hand, if reverence for the Mass is #1 on a person's list, the FSSP seminary in Nebraska would have to be on the very short list of institutions one would want to attend for formation.

OTOH, as noted above, The Motu does technically empower a diocesan priest to say the '62 TLM unless his Bishop forbids him. Virtually every Bishop in the world, however, places real restrictions on this. People can argue all day about the will of Pope Benedict and the reform of the reform, but in realville, priests are expected to minister in real parishes to real people who are not interested in the TLM and don't want their babies Baptized with Latin. This really restricts the real opportunities to use the old Missal even if the Bishop is not hostile to it...but most US Bishops are actually (And actively) hostile. Every diocese has a few traditionalist priests who are suffering and looking for a way out. El Paso, TX, has a particularly ugly and public case of this. It's worth reading about that case. And, in the diocesan setting, Bishops come and go and there's no guarantee of anything.

However, if you go diocesan, keep in mind that you have to first make it through seminary, and right now, to the best of my knowledge, there is not a USA seminary open to diocesan candidates that is teaching and using the 1962 Missal. Surely there are some individual USA-based seminarians interested in tradition who are preparing to say the TLM once ordained, but unless something has changed very recently it's not being done officially anywhere in North America among the diocesan seminaries, but I would certainly love to hear that the situation had changed. I think it's sort of silly that the Pontiff's Motu Proprio is not being inplemented at even the Pontifical seminary in North America. I'd like to point out also that, at many seminaries, the lack of formation in the Traditional Mass would be the least of your problems as a traditionalist. You'd have a big target on you.

IF one is not interested in being a parish priest, there are other opportunities for traditional religious life, such as with the Benedictines at Norcia and numerous other monasteries.

And, because I'm a sticker - I knew exactly what you meant in your comment about the Fathers. You were paraphrasing something Benedict has said about the TLM nurturing the Saints. The good Brother who posted above is techincally correct that those usually referred to as the "Fathers" come from the first 5 centuries of the Church and do predate the Tridentine liturgy, but you are quite correct that the Traditional Latin Mass wast the Mass said or heard by many, many of our most notable Saints. That's worth repeating frequently.


#9

[quote="ipwnuathalo2, post:8, topic:296022"]

And, because I'm a sticker - I knew exactly what you meant in your comment about the Fathers. You were paraphrasing something Benedict has said about the TLM nurturing the Saints. The good Brother who posted above is techincally correct that those usually referred to as the "Fathers" come from the first 5 centuries of the Church and do predate the Tridentine liturgy, but you are quite correct that the Traditional Latin Mass wast the Mass said or heard by many, many of our most notable Saints. That's worth repeating frequently.

[/quote]

I thought the same as you but as said it was not correct. I think we need to be careful in our use of language as it can cause misunderstandings.

I would add that while it is true that many Saints did participate in the EF Mass some of those also did not as they were members of religious orders who have their own rites.


#10

Just a quick note, SP is actually somewhat limited. While it gave priests the right to celebrate the TLM freely, it does not guarantee them the right to do so in their parish, using parish resources; bishops are still free to deny alterations to the Mass schedule on pastoral grounds. This is why someone discerning diocesan priesthood who also has a special love and desire for celebrating the TLM would do well to factor in the attitudes of the bishop of the diocese to which they're applying. Some bishops (e.g., Morlino, Bruskewitz, DiNardo) have more favorable and generous attitudes toward the TLM than others (Card. Wuerl is the only one I know of who has taken a dim view of it in his diocese, but there are probably others).

Many dioceses don't have any (or many) priests qualified or interested in saying it, so they may well not have a firm policy on it.


#11

[quote="superamazingman, post:3, topic:296022"]
The sciocety of Jesus Christ the priest. They celebrate both forms well and faithfully.

[/quote]

Here is another one that has a similar name: Apostles of Jesus Christ, Priest and Victim

apostlesofjesuschrist.org


#12

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