Extraterrestials and catholic theology

please all readers of this post take a quick few minutes to visit the wonderful website www.ufoevidence.org and take a gander at the nearly 300 vetted photographs they have on display of what appear to be bona fide “extraterrestrial vehicles” (etvs), which is the term used by believers to separate an unidentified flying object (ufo) from an intelligently controlled spacecraft visiting earth. the photographs are awesome, in my opinion, and i believe they provide definitive proof of an extraterrestrial presence around earth.

also, for those of you who are interested in learning more about ufos; aliens; exopolitics, a new term describing the interactions between humans and aliens; alien abductions; and the coverups and war plans of earth’s governments related to ufos, the following list represents my favorite public domain books on the subject, all of which can be ordered used or new through www.amazon.com. all of the books were written by educated, professional, sane, rational, skeptical authors, by the way, although one or two of them make a few claims that are absolutely far out and hard to believe: 1) ufos and the national security state by historian dr richard dolan (pronounced doh’luhn), 2) ce5 by academic dr richard haines, 3) communion by journalist and author whitley streiber (pronounced stree’buhr), 4) *hair of the alien *by australian journalist bill chalker, 5) *the day after roswell *by deceased american military intelligence officer colonel philip corso, 6) *hidden truth - forbidden knowledge *by medical doctor dr steven greer, 7) the phoenix lights by medical doctor dr lynn kitei, 8) exopolitics by academic dr michael salla, 9) abduction by deceased harvard psychiatrist and professor dr john mack, and 10) *alien agenda *by journalist jim marrs.

finally, please read the following pasted article: prweb - a former canadian minister of defence and deputy prime minister under pierre trudeau has joined forces with three nongovernmental organizations to ask the parliament of canada to hold public hearings on exopolitics – relations with “ets.” by “ets,” mr hellyer and these organizations mean ethical, advanced extraterrestrial civilizations that may now be visiting earth. on september 25, 2005, in a startling speech at the university of toronto that caught the attention of mainstream newspapers and magazines, paul hellyer, canada’s defence minister from 1963-67 under nobel peace prize laureate prime minister lester pearson, publicly stated: “ufos are as real as the airplanes that fly over your head.” mr hellyer went on to say, “i’m so concerned about what the consequences might be of starting an intergalactic war, that i just think i had to say something.” hellyer revealed, “the secrecy involved in all matters pertaining to the roswell incident was unparalled. the classification was, from the outset, above top secret, so the vast majority of us officials and politicians, let alone a mere allied minister of defence, were never in-the-loop.” hellyer warned, “the united states military are preparing weapons which could be used against the aliens, and they could get us into an intergalactic war without us ever having any warning”. he stated, “the bush administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the goings and comings of the visitors from space, and to shoot at them, if they so decide.” hellyer’s speech ended with a standing ovation. he said, “the time has come to lift the veil of secrecy, and let the truth emerge, so there can be a real and informed [public] debate, about one of the most important problems facing our planet today.” three nongovernmental organizations took hellyer’s words to heart and approached canada’s parliament in ottawa, canada’s capital, to hold public hearings on a possible et presence, and what canada should do. the canadian senate, which is an appointed body, has held objective, well-regarded hearings and issued reports on controversial issues such as same-sex marriage and medical marijuana. on october 20 2005, the institute for cooperation in space requested canadian senator colin kenny, senator, chair of the senate standing senate committee on national security and defence, “schedule public hearings on the canadian exopolitics initiative, so that witnesses such as the honorable paul hellyer and canadian-connected high level military-intelligence, norad-connected, scientific and governmental witnesses facilitated by the disclosure project and by the toronto exopolitics symposium can present compelling evidence, testimony, and public policy recommendations.” the nongovernmental organizations seeking parliament hearings include canada-based toronto exopolitics symposium, which organized the university of toronto symposium at which mr hellyer spoke. the disclosure project, a us* based organization that has assembled high level military-intelligence witnesses of a possible et presence, is also one of the organizations seeking canadian parliament hearings. vancouver-based institute for cooperation in space (icis), whose international director headed a proposed 1977 extraterrestrial communication study for the white house of former us president jimmy carter, who himself has publicly reported a 1969 close encounter of the first kind with a ufo, filed the original request for canadian parliament hearings.

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the canadian exopolitics initiative, presented by the organizations to a senate committee panel hearing in winnipeg, canada, on march 10, 2005, proposes that the government of canada undertake a decade of contact. the proposed decade of contact is “a 10-year process of formal, funded public education, scientific research, educational curricula development and implementation, strategic planning, community activity, and public outreach concerning our terrestrial society’s full cultural, political, social, legal, and governmental communication and public interest diplomacy with advanced, ethical off-planet cultures now visiting earth.” canada has a long history of opposing the basing of weapons in outer space. on september 22, 2004 canadian prime minister paul martin declared to the un general assembly, "space is our final frontier. it has always captured our imagination. what a tragedy it would be if space became one big weapons arsenal and the scene of a new arms race.” martin stated, “in 1967, the united nations agreed that weapons of mass destruction must not be based in space. the time has come to extend this ban to all weapons…”. in may, 2003, speaking before the canadian house of commons standing committee on national defence and veterans affairs, former minister of foreign affairs of canada lloyd axworthy, stated, “washington’s offer to canada is not an invitation to join america under a protective shield, but it presents a global security doctrine that violates canadian values on many levels.” axworthy concluded, “there should be an uncompromising commitment to preventing the placement of weapons in space.” on february 24, 2005, canadian prime minister paul martin made official canada’s decision not to take part in the us government’s ballistic missile defence program. paul hellyer, who now seeks canadian parliament hearings on relations with ets, on may 15, 2003, stated in toronto’s globe & mail newspaper, “canada should accept the long-standing invitation of us congressman dennis kucinich of ohio to launch a conference to seek approval of an international treaty to ban weapons in space. that would be a positive canadian contribution toward a more peaceful world.” in early november 2005, the canadian senate wrote icis, indicating the senate committee could not hold hearings on ets in 2005, because of their already crowded schedule. “that does not deter us,” one spokesperson for the nongovernmental organizations said, "we are going ahead with our request to prime minister paul martin and the official opposition leaders in the house of commons now, and we will re-apply with the senate of canada in early 2006. “time is on the side of open disclosure that there are ethical extraterrestrial civilizations visiting earth,” the spokesperson stated. “our canadian government needs to openly address these important issues of the possible deployment of weapons in outer war plans against ethical et societies.”

in light of all of the above: i ask if anyone has any thoughts, opinions, concerns, arguments, questions, etc concerning the clearly evidenced extraterrestrial presence around earth, especially in regards to moral theology questions such as: should aliens be treated as moral equals of humans, or perhaps be given the same moral status amongst humanity as the nonhuman animals of earth?, would it be moral for humans to make contact with aliens, given the problems inherent in introducing exotic thought and possibly exotic technologies into earth’s ecosystem?, should catholics advocate peace with aliens?, is it morally wrong for certain extraterrestrial aliens, such as the reputed grays, to abduct humans for their biomedical purposes?, etc…

If there are any peoples “out there” they would have the good sense to land in a public place and introduce themselves to us like the reasonable, sentient beings they’d have to be in order to cross the vast distances of space. Unles and until that happens, I will reserve judgment as to their existence and leave it up to God as to their status.

i think this copied and pasted (and adapted) article might shed a little light on what the holy church believes right now concerning intelligent extraterrestrial life:

**intelligent aliens may be living among the stars and are likely to have souls, a senior vatican scientist said yesterday. **

the pope’s astronomer, guy consolmagno, said he would be happy to ‘baptise an alien’ - but admitted that the chances of communicating with life outside the earth were low.

speaking at the british science festival in birmingham, dr consolmagno also dismissed creationism and claimed that the revival of ‘intelligent design’ - the controversial theory that only god can explain gaps in the theory of evolution - was ‘bad theology’.

dr consolmagno, one of a team of 12 astronomers working for the vatican, said the catholic church had been supporting and funding science for centuries.

a self-confessed science fiction fan, he said he was ‘comfortable’ with the idea of alien life.
asked if he would baptise an alien, he replied: ‘only if they asked.’

he added: 'i’d be delighted if we found life elsewhere and delighted if we found intelligent life elsewhere.

'but the odds of us finding it, of it being intelligent and us being able to communicate with it - when you add them up it’s probably not a practical question.

‘god is bigger than just humanity. god is also the god of angels.’

in the middle ages, the definition of a soul was to have intelligence, free will, freedom to love and freedom to make decisions, he said.

those characteristics may not be unique to humans.

‘any entity - no matter how many tentacles it has - has a soul,’ he added.

in practice, machines were unlikely to be smart or human enough to have souls.

dr consolmagno, 57, the curator of the pope’s meteorite collection, is a trained astronomer and planetary scientist at the vatican’s observatory.

on ‘intelligent design’, which claims that darwin’s theory of evolution cannot explain the complexity of life, he said: 'the word has been hijacked by a narrow group of creationist fundamentalists in america to mean something it didn’t originally mean at all.

'it’s another form of the god of the gaps.

‘it’s bad theology in that it turns god once again into the pagan god of thunder and lightning.’

the phrase ‘intelligent design’ was centuries old and described the idea that god could be discovered in the laws of space and time and the existence of human reason.

read more: dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1312922/Pope-astronomer-Guy-Consolmagno-Aliens-souls-living-stars.html#ixzz1Yifg6PJA

I believe everything this person has posted to be unadulterated hokum and the result of someone having a smattering of education watching/reading too much science fiction.

to the poster above: sorry if my posts have offended you. i hope you will elaborate a little here in this thread and explain just exactly why you feel all of my posts are “hokum”? can you please take a little time to do this, for the benefit of the audience you are trying to reach with your insults?

further, i cannot help but guess (perhaps wrongly, admittedly) that the problem is that my posts threaten your beliefs or your intelligence. i mean, come on, clearly my posts are intelligently written and ask thought-provoking questions. do you experience difficulties producing intelligent thought yourself? because that’s my hunch.

once again, so sorry for whatever i’ve done to offend you, but why don’t you put “your money where your [intellectual] mouth is” and expand a little bit on why you feel so threatened by my posts that you have to insult me and them so blatantly. thanks.

whitecrayon

The UFO that appeared just above the Dome on the Rock in Israel captured on film by many and broadcasted by FOX and other major networks is indeed interesting (Google for* yourself* if you are skeptical.) These things can no longer be denied by reasonable people. Period. No need to feel threatened in terms of one’s faith. Faith and UFO’s are not mutually exclusive. People like Von Daniken and others may indeed have taken it too far. However I think it behooves the people of the world to take a very,very serious look into these things.

Peculiar that… Peculiar that scientists get all excited by a rock from mars was found in the polar regions on earth that may indicate life on another planet when a plethora of UFOs are sighted routinely on this planet.:shrug: Go figure that one.

Two comments:

  • The Church has no position on aliens.
  • Aliens have never visited Earth. Anyone who says so is either lying, dreaming, imagining, on medication (legal or otherwise), mentally impaired, or wanting their 15 miniutes of fame.

dear thistle

with all due respect, you are just plain wrong. it is factual that extraterrestrials visit earth in spaceships.

perhaps you should click on the link i provided to www.ufoevidence.org and/or read a few of the books i listed (especially ufos and the national security state by richard dolan, *hair of the alien *by bill chalker, ce5 by richard haines, and *the day after roswell *by philip corso, all of which are proof positive that aliens routinely visit earth in so-called ufos).

i think, just as many could not accept the factual truth about evolution of the human species for so many years after scientists pretty much proved it, people like you have become dogmatic about their beliefs about aliens.

aliens do indeed come to earth regularly, a few types of aliens abduct humans for biomedical experimentation, and a few types of alien spacecrafts have engaged military jets in dogfights. read the books i listed above for the factual evidence, and please do not make any dogmatic claims that are not true in this thread. thank you.

It is abolutely NOT factual that aliens have visited Earth. If I say what I really think of people who hold that ridiculous position I would be banned from these forums!!

WhiteCrayon: I just offered my honest, educated opinion. Obviously, all you want to do is debate what I consider to be an inane issue.
I have better things to do with my life, apart from being online and reading some rather ridiculous debates more appropriate to American teenagers than adults.

How ironic :rolleyes:

dear thistle, stegmeir and underacloud

have any of you even visited www.ufoevidence.org or read any of the books i have listed? or do all three of you just make your claims based on personal conjecture? because when human beings make statements that they cannot back up with evidence, they are often quite wrong, as all three of you assuredly are, no offense intended (honestly).

listen… it is okay to doubt that aliens visit earth, but it is not okay to dismiss out-of-hand a large amount of evidence for aliens visiting earth without even looking at it and reading it. why don’t all of you at least just spend maybe 20 or 30 minutes browsing the 284 photographs at www.ufoevidence.org and reading a few of the articles that website offers. i cannot expect, given the strong dogmatic beliefs against the possibility of an extraterrestrial presence around earth that all three of you seem to share, that you might order any of the listed books from www.amazon.com, because you probably do not have open minds about the possibility; but spending a few minutes online looking at photographs is not that much to ask.

please reply to this post here in this thread to let me know if you three (or anyone else) has even taken the time to look at the photographs at www.ufoevidence.org. thanks.

whitecrayon

The photos are rubbish and meaningless and I note the site is another conspiracy theory site.

How else do you explain someone like Michael Jackson?

:rotfl:

Well I believe so and I’m none of those making that post quite the ignorant one.

Please do your research and don’t come in as if you’re a know it all on UFO’s to dismiss every piece of credible evidence out there like some big shot.

It was only interesting at first glance but that was nothing but a fake IMO after doing some checking.

There is no credible evidence of any alien life visiting us at all.
If they did visit, I would imagine it would only be because they had depleted all their sources of maintianing life where they were.
I’m sure they would avoid us if they could. Or try to save the universe from our stupid and wipe us out.

dear strawberryjam

how can you state that you believe “there is no credible evidence” that aliens visit earth, after i just posted a link to a website that clearly supplies “credible evidence” that aliens visit earth, as well as a list of books (that, apparently, no one will bother to read) that pretty much prove that aliens visit earth, so help me god. why are all of the repliers to my original posts in this thread naysayers who cannot accept that they may be wrong. look at the evidence, people! then make some sort of intelligent comment or argument here, please!

There is absolutely ZERO evidence of aliens having visited Earth.

As I said earlier anyone who says so is either lying, dreaming, imagining, on medication (legal or otherwise), mentally impaired, wanting their 15 minutes of fame, or the shrewd doing it to make money!!

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