Faces of the ‘No Fly’ list


#1

Why are they suspect until proven innocent?

By Brock N. Meeks
Chief Washington correspondent
MSNBC
Updated: 4:52 p.m. ET July 26, 2005

WASHINGTON - They have served in our wars, they enforce and adjudicate our laws, they hold top secret security clearances and their entrepreneurial spirit helps energize the economy. Leading lives of ordinary distinction they have little in common, save this: when they fly they are pulled into a demeaning orbit of “suspect until proven innocent” because their names are on a government terrorist watch list.

Every day thousands of airline passengers are wrongly identified as being on the Transportation Security Administration list of known or potential threats to commercial aviation. Actually, there are two lists. One is the hardcore “No Fly” list. A traveler identified on that list will not be permitted on a commercial airliner. The other list is called the "Selectee list,” which allows travel but only after full vetting of personal history.

The hardcore list contains name of people who are known terrorists or have solid ties to terrorism. Persons may land on the “Selectee list” for a variety of reasons, including prior dangerous behavior, such as trying to pass a gun through a security checkpoint or because information linking them to terrorism isn’t solid enough to place on them the “No Fly” list.

Such nuance is cold comfort for the thousands of persons each day that become ensnared in this hassle of having to prove their innocence just to hop a flight. MSNBC.com recently heard from dozens of those whose names are on the watch list. Some of them agreed to tell us their stories.

TO READ REST OF ARTICLE:
msnbc.msn.com/id/8705746/


#2

No system is perfect. I would rather have a few people go through extra security than have another 9/11. I have been pulled aside twice and gone through the extra checks, so what. I feel safer knowing that some attempt is being made to screen for terrorist.


#3

So your name is on a “terrorist watch list”??? The point was that the TSA has names on a list that should not be there…and to remove your name from this list you really have to provide everything but the kitchen sink.


#4

[quote=Karin]So your name is on a “terrorist watch list”??? The point was that the TSA has names on a list that should not be there…and to remove your name from this list you really have to provide everything but the kitchen sink.
[/quote]

Just the way it should be. I don’t want someone off the list just because they don’t want to be there.


#5

[quote=Lance]Just the way it should be. I don’t want someone off the list just because they don’t want to be there.
[/quote]

The point was …there are people on the list that SHOULD not be there…they have proven to the TSA that they should not be there and have been taken off the list(s).


#6

[quote=Karin]The point was …there are people on the list that SHOULD not be there…they have proven to the TSA that they should not be there and have been taken off the list(s).
[/quote]

So, a mistake was made and then corrected. It seems that the system, although imperfect, is working more or less properly. Do you expect perfection of anything instituted by man or just of everything instituted under the Bush administration?


#7

[quote=geezerbob]Do you expect perfection of anything instituted by man or just of everything instituted under the Bush administration?
[/quote]

** I dont expect perfection from anything instituted my man…as to everything instituted under the Bush administration…:rotfl: **


#8

[quote=geezerbob]So, a mistake was made and then corrected. It seems that the system, although imperfect, is working more or less properly. Do you expect perfection of anything instituted by man or just of everything instituted under the Bush administration?
[/quote]

‘More or less’ properly isn’t good enough though if you are liable to be shot eight times for just being a terrorist suspect, as it seems we are in the UK now.

Mike


#9

You are always welcome to leave and go back to Austria anytime…we have enough home grown America haters without having to import them.

[quote=Karin]** I dont expect perfection from anything instituted my man…as to everything instituted under the Bush administration…:rotfl: **
[/quote]


#10

[quote=dumspirospero]You are always welcome to leave and go back to Austria anytime…we have enough home grown America haters without having to import them.
[/quote]

LOL!!! So now not agreeing with the President means I hate America…oh Please !? Please do not put words into my mouth!!! I disagree with certain things that this goverment does,just like some Americans, but in no way does this mean I HATE this country.


#11

[quote=dumspirospero]You are always welcome to leave and go back to Austria anytime…we have enough home grown America haters without having to import them.
[/quote]

Ah. You only get freedom of speech if you happen to have been born on the right piece of land?

Mike


#12

[quote=MikeWM]Ah. You only get freedom of speech if you happen to have been born on the right piece of land?

Mike
[/quote]

I guess so…!!!


#13

Nope…its not like that at all…the only thing this poster ever has to say is inflammatory and disrespectful things about the country in which she IS A VISITOR in…Period!!!

[quote=MikeWM]Ah. You only get freedom of speech if you happen to have been born on the right piece of land?

Mike
[/quote]


#14

[quote=dumspirospero]Nope…its not like that at all…the only thing this poster ever has to say is inflammatory and disrespectful things about the country in which she IS A VISITOR in…Period!!!
[/quote]

Excuse me…there are people on this site that are Americans that say the same things I do…how is that different??? So now everyone has to agree with President Bush to be a good American or visitor as you put it??? Yes, I am a visitor in this country who by the way PAYS TAXES and has AMerican kids…and is married to an American…so if I want to complain how the goverment spends my tax money I will…If I want to complain that the school system is sub -standard I will!!!


#15

[quote=dumspirospero]Nope…its not like that at all…the only thing this poster ever has to say is inflammatory and disrespectful things about the country in which she IS A VISITOR in…Period!!!
[/quote]

Personally, I find that outsiders can have some prescient points about what works and what doesn’t work in a country that people who have lived there all their lives overlook.

Equally of course outsiders can say things that are downright silly because of a lack of knowledge of processes or history, etc.

On balance though, I think a fresh perspective is usually rather refreshing and thought-provoking.

Mike


#16

I can sit back and listen to a member of my family complain about another family member or criticize someone in my family for their actions or beliefs, etc…but I be damned if I am going to sit by and let an outsider (non-family member) trash and disrespect someone in my family for any reason whatsoever…draw the comparison.

[quote=Karin]Excuse me…there are people on this site that are Americans that say the same things I do…how is that different??? So now everyone has to agree with President Bush to be a good American or visitor as you put it??? Yes, I am a visitor in this country who by the way PAYS TAXES and has AMerican kids…and is married to an American…so if I want to complain how the goverment spends my tax money I will…If I want to complain that the school system is sub -standard I will!!!
[/quote]


#17

[quote=dumspirospero]I can sit back and listen to a member of my family complain about another family member or criticize someone in my family for their actions or beliefs, etc…but I be damned if I am going to sit by and let an outsider (non-family member) trash and disrespect someone in my family for any reason whatsoever…draw the comparison.
[/quote]

Ah, so only Americans born and bred here are allowed to complain and voice opinions?


#18

Born here and actual people who are legal citizens…you know, people who have gone through the process of naturalization…Because if you are not an American by either birth or naturalization…Butt out! I could care less what your opinion may be…take your opinions and fix your own country before you try interfering in ours.

[quote=Karin]Ah, so only Americans born and bred here are allowed to complain and voice opinions?
[/quote]


#19

[quote=dumspirospero]Born here and actual people who are legal citizens…you know, people who have gone through the process of naturalization…
[/quote]

Good thing the goverment does not agree with you!


#20

That is the problem with our government…we open our borders to much to outsiders…we need more stringent immigration laws and we need to eradicate this illegal alien problem.

[quote=Karin]Good thing the goverment does not agree with you!
[/quote]


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